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Author Topic: HRT - High dose  (Read 2207 times)

Sooty

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HRT - High dose
« on: December 29, 2021, 08:22:52 PM »

Hi,

I am currently on what is considered a high dose of hrt - 2 x 100mg patches and 2 daily pumps of gel (his week increased to 3). I have issues with absorption as my last estradiol blood test came back at 289pmol/L.

My menopause specialist does not believe that hrt can treat the more psychological symptoms (those are my main concern) and that a level of 250pmol/L is sufficient. Other menopause specialists state otherwise.

Where do I go from here? Still suffering with anxiety / low mood and my gp is not at all knowledgeable on the mentopause. Should I suggest the spray even if I have absorption issues? If so, how many should I start with?

Thank you for your help
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Taz2

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2021, 08:52:35 PM »

Hi Sooty. Not much knowledge of the high dose of oestrogen I'm afraid but I've been on standard HRT for fourteen years and found that it has not helped with anxiety and low mood apart from the fact that relief from hot sweats gave me better sleep which did make me feel better. Quite a few members use HRT as well as anti depressants in order to feel at their best. I'm sure someone will be along soon with their experiences and advice. You'll found this forum a great place for help and advice.

Taz x  :welcomemm:
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Jop4321

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2021, 09:01:06 PM »

A low dose of Fluoxetine or Sertraline may help with low mood and anxiety
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sheila99

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2021, 11:25:50 PM »

Did your anxiety/low mood arrive with peri or did you have it beforehand? Mine did and has completely gone with sufficient oestrogen but if yours isn't caused by oestrogen deficiency then it may not. Have you tried oral oestrogen or the implant? You may find it easier to raise your levels with a different method of delivery.
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Sazduggs

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2021, 11:41:07 AM »

Hi,

I hope I don’t upset anyone here, that’s not my intention! … but hrt, specifically estrogen DOES treat low mood, anxiety and depression (so long as it’s caused by hormones anyway) I have high doses. I had a full hysterectomy including ovaries to treat mood. High levels of estrogen keep me lucid!

Research papers by professor John studd and mr nick panay. Both pioneers in the effects of low estrogen on mood and how most women are incorrectly treated with anti depressants and even lithium for bipolar…. When in fact it’s estrogen they need. GP’s know diddly squat about menopause and hormones and way too many women suffer because of this. I spent 10 years in absolute hell. In a zombie like state, suicidal and a fraction of myself. Go told me I had depression, bi polar, fibromyalgia and everything else under the sun but I refused all their advice and medication because I knew it was none of that. After many years of research I found plenty of info on estrogen and how it’s mid diagnosed. I went to my gynae surgeon, armed with much paperwork and demanded a total hysterectomy at 35! He agreed…. Fast forward 7 years.. I’ve retrained… twice, I travel, I earn, I live…. I feel better than I ever have in my life. Research, research, research!!!  Try to get to see me nick panay at chelsea and Westminster. They are fantastic and promise you won’t regret it xx
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Sooty

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2021, 05:18:58 PM »

Thank you very much for the responses.

I was on a low dose anti d after having pnd with my youngest, now 8 (I also had it with my eldest now 10). This was increased a couple of years ago and propranolol added after I started suffering from panic attacks. I was, at that point, put onto 4 pumps of gel but even at that dose my estradiol levels were under 60. I have, since then, increased estrogen and changed anti ds and have had very little improvement in symptoms.

So, whilst I did have some previous pnd, the anxiety came out of the blue and the low mood severely exacerbated at the time I be ame perimenopausal.

Sazduggs - yes, I have read an article by Nick Panay that suggests estradiol levels may need to get to over 800 for some people and Professor Studd links pnd sufferers with the more psychological symptoms. The meno specialist I saw was quite dismissive of both unfortunately 😔 and there is no one else in my area that I can see.
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Kathleen

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2021, 06:08:35 PM »

Hello Sooty and welcome to the forum.

I  understand your predicament because although my hormone levels are good I am also experiencing low mood and anxiety. I am post meno and using two and a half sachets of Sandrena gel plus testosterone and progesterone.

If your specialist is being dismissive you may want to think about a specialist clinic.

This time last year I became a patient of Newson Health which is a private a menopause clinic and the doctor I see is working hard to resolve my symptoms. They are  expensive  but there is no need to travel for appointments as these can be conducted over Zoom. If this is not an option for you perhaps you could email a question to Dr Heather Currie who founded MM. There is charge of about forty pounds I think and the details are available on this site.

I hope you get the right help soon. I have had many meno symptoms over the years including headaches and palpitations but the mood issues have become very distressing. Incidentally I was diagnosed with 'the psychological effects of the menopause' by a Consultant Gynaecologist at my local hospital and emotional problems are a well known symptom so how your specialist can think otherwise is a mystery!

Lastly I want to say that I didn't experience PND with either of my children and only noticed the mood changes when I became post menopausal. As I said, my estradiol levels are apparently good but they are certainly not in the 800 range.

I hope this is helpful to you and please keep us updated.

Take care.

K.

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laszla

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2022, 03:55:24 PM »

Hi,

I hope I don’t upset anyone here, that’s not my intention! … but hrt, specifically estrogen DOES treat low mood, anxiety and depression (so long as it’s caused by hormones anyway) I have high doses. I had a full hysterectomy including ovaries to treat mood. High levels of estrogen keep me lucid!

Research papers by professor John studd and mr nick panay. Both pioneers in the effects of low estrogen on mood and how most women are incorrectly treated with anti depressants and even lithium for bipolar…. When in fact it’s estrogen they need. GP’s know diddly squat about menopause and hormones and way too many women suffer because of this. I spent 10 years in absolute hell. In a zombie like state, suicidal and a fraction of myself. Go told me I had depression, bi polar, fibromyalgia and everything else under the sun but I refused all their advice and medication because I knew it was none of that. After many years of research I found plenty of info on estrogen and how it’s mid diagnosed. I went to my gynae surgeon, armed with much paperwork and demanded a total hysterectomy at 35! He agreed…. Fast forward 7 years.. I’ve retrained… twice, I travel, I earn, I live…. I feel better than I ever have in my life. Research, research, research!!!  Try to get to see me nick panay at chelsea and Westminster. They are fantastic and promise you won’t regret it xx
I agree with you though my experience at Chelsea & Westminster so far has been awful - I waited 4 months for a referral, it was cancelled at last minute and postponed a further two months, when it finally came around it was phone only, with a nurse.
There is no way a phone call can cut it for something as fraught as menopause,  at least not as a first point of contact to build up a rapport. They ordered tests and the nurse failed to tell me that my follow-up would be 5 months later, I found this out via a text that I couldnt answer.
They then failed to send either me or my GP test results, so I had to go through a ridiculously circuitous route to obtain them, the hospital wouldn't give them to me in response to my many emails, a friend's 12 year old ( :o) suggested I sign up to the hospital app and this finally gave me some (but not all) of my results, one of which is a very low level of estrogen despite 3 years on estrogel.
But according to the C&W way of doing things, I'm supposed to suffer in silence for 5 months, on top of the lost previous 3 years in which I obviously havent absorbed a dot of estrogen.
With this I want to say that while Nick Panay is undoubtedly a leading light in menopause treament, his NHS clinic at C&W in its current state is abysmal in my experience.
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Nas

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2022, 06:06:25 PM »

Laszla, I would echo what you have said re Chelsea and Westminster.
My experiences have been awful too.
Phone calls at random times, no real advice or plan of action etc.

Nick Panay may be one of the best menopause specialists in the country, but I’ve never seen him and have only spoken to a nurse on that phone.

Dreadful treatment in honesty and I’ve suffered and suffered!

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Sazduggs

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2022, 06:32:21 PM »

Oh no, that’s all such a shame ☹️

When I first went there I had a 9 month wait for my first appointment but I saw nick for the first 3 appointments and ever since I’ve either seen Claire or a visiting dr to do my pellets. But that was 5 years ago. I do know that they have got crazy busy in those last 5 years. To the point they can’t keep up clearly. Such I shame. I guess I was lucky and got my foot in the door before it all got so busy. I know covid is caused huge issues too as they shut down the clinic for ages. I have friends who had to go an extra 6 months before their pellets too ups. I Was ok, my due dates seemed to fall at the right time, but I will say I can find them all a little impolite, and ride at times. God knows what is pellet ladies are going to do when they stop making them……
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Nas

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2022, 07:28:38 PM »

Think you are right Sazduggs, ChelWest has become ridiculously busy. They can’t seriously expect women to wait months and months for advice and treatment, it’s crazy!
And to call at the most random of times, for roughly 3 minutes, is beyond me.

I’ve since seen a private specialist in Liverpool and feel that she has been more helpful AND is on the other end of email.

Is it only ChelWest which offer pellets then?
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Sazduggs

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2022, 07:43:32 PM »

I think so because they are unlicensed
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laszla

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2022, 10:28:11 PM »

Laszla, I would echo what you have said re Chelsea and Westminster.
My experiences have been awful too.
Phone calls at random times, no real advice or plan of action etc.

Nick Panay may be one of the best menopause specialists in the country, but I’ve never seen him and have only spoken to a nurse on that phone.

Dreadful treatment in honesty and I’ve suffered and suffered!

So sorry to hear this Nas, the only consolation - if you can call it that - being that it makes me feel less alone to know that someone else has experienced similar at C&W. Having a busy clinic, or even Covid, are no excuse for such poor service. I think this will give me the push to go and find an alternative, glad you have found someone good in Liverpool.
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Nas

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2022, 09:47:09 AM »

Laszla, if you can find an alternative, I would strongly recommend that you do.

I was referred to Liverpool women's hospital last year and saw a lovely consultant for a whole hour. The private spec I had seen previously, even came out of appointment with someone else, to see me!

I’m still not sorted properly, but Liverpool were excellent in terms of patient service.

Chelsea and Westminster sadly, are not fit for purpose any longer.
I have also spoken to two another women,  who have said the same re Chelsea.

Best of luck.
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Sooty

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Re: HRT - High dose
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2022, 09:12:20 PM »

I cant really afford to go private unfortunately, certainly not the Newson Health prices at £250 a consultation.

I may look into the emailind Dr Currie option but feel I need more longer term support.

I wonder if, now that most consultations take place remotely, I could be referred further afield by my gp surgery rather than the nearest specialist 🤔
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