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[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I was wondering if many of you have continued to have mood problems despite being post meno and on HRT?

My last period was in 2010 and I have had mood swings of varying severity ever since.  I wasn't a particularly moody child or teenager but this aspect of the menopause is extremely distressing. I have been through many of the physical and vasomotor symptoms and of course my HRT is likely helping with those anyway but the emotional/psychological problems are never ending!

Currently I experience irritability, low mood and crying plus anxiety every day. This is becoming more and more difficult to tolerate. My  HRT consists of three sachets of Sandrena gel, Androfeme (testosterone) and Utrogestan 100mg orally at night. I am at a loss at to what to try next. I am also taking the anti depressant Venlafaxine.

If any of you have similar experiences I would love to hear from you, especially of course if you have found a way to cope with this emotional roller-coaster. I genuinely think that I am going mad sometimes and I need to find some hope from somewhere.

Thank you for reading this and stay safe everyone.

Take care.

K.

[Wrensong]

Kathleen, I'm sorry, you must be so fed up with it after all this time.  Just wondering whether a change of antidepressant is something you could maybe discuss with your doctors?

Another thought is that you've posted previously about being diagnosed hypothyroid, can I ask have you had your T3 tested?  You'll know it's important for mental (as well as physical) health that we are able to produce sufficient amounts of this hormone & some patients are not good converters of thyroxine.   
Wx

[Kathleen]

Hello Wrensong.

Thank you for your reply and helpful suggestions. I have wondered about the AD as it was prescribed along with HRT so I never worked out how much difference it made. Thanks also for reminding me about T3.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Nas]

Sorry you are suffering Kathleen, these symptoms are just awful aren’t they?

3 gel sachets is a fair old whack of oestrogen.

Maybe switch the anti depressant? Adjustments to your hrt regime? Have you tried CBD oil or any supplements?

Hope you feel better soon x

[Kathleen]

Hello Nas

Thank you for your reply. I agree that three sachets of Sandrena is a lot and I believe it is equivalent to six pumps of gel. When I last spoke to my meno doctor  she suggested that I could go to three and a half sachets but I am reluctant to do this. I did wonder if the Utrogestan was impacting my mood but  surely it would be overwhelmed by all that Oestrogen!

I began Venlafaxine at the same time as HRT and was told that this AD was particularly good for reducing night sweats. I take it at night and if I had any side effects I didn't notice them or assumed that they were due to meno or my HRT. One night I forgot to take it and I did have a more sweaty and disturbed night as a result.

I will look at other options including supplements as my mood swings are really getting to me and I long to feel more emotionally stable.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[jillydoll]

Hi Kathleen.

Don’t know if you’ve spoken about this or your already on it, but have you thought about testosterone?
I know nothing much about it, but I know some ladies use it on here.
Maybe, if your not using it, you should ask about it and it could help. ?
Just trying to get you back to yourself. I’m always thinking of you.
Xx

[CherrySG]

I don't have the best record for mental stability but I used to get dreadful mood swings on hrt, notably tearfulness following oestrogel. I wonder if the gel peaks oestrogen levels sharply after application and the level drops sharply, causing the mood swings. I've also never suffered severe depression until going on Hrt. Now I'm off, the crying spells and low moods have slowly resolved.

This is just conjecture though. I hope you find a good solution soon. Maybe the venlafaxine is not having the desired effect?

[VictoryV]

Hi Kathleen,
I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
Is your Menopause Specialist testing your Oestrogen levels? I hope you don’t mind me asking, I don’t think that 3 sachets are a lot if you need them. I’d be inclined to get everything tested before making any hormone changes, especially T3.
For Christmas I’ve bought myself a full hormone panel test because I never buy myself anything and if something is a little out of kilter I’m best knowing about it. I can send you the link by PM if you want, I’m not sure if posting links to commercial produce is ok?
Hang in there, sending hugs.
Victoria.xx

[Gnatty]

I would be really interested to hear how you get on with that!

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies..


Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

Jillydoll - I am using testosterone and have been for about six months.  I had to get my oestrogen up to a reasonable level before starting it and my meno clinic  told me that it would make a big difference but I'm not sure that it has. Thank you for the suggestion though and I agree that many ladies swear by it.

Cherry SG -  I stopped HRT for year in 2019 and my low moods and  crying spells became pretty intense. My GP at the time said that this symptom does resolve eventually however I could resume HRT if I wanted to. Of course I now wonder if I should have pushed on through. I am pleased that these problems are lessening for you as I know how debilitating they can be.  I have also wondered about Venlafaxine and changing AD might be my next option.


Victoria V - My meno doctor has checked my Oestrogen  levels and says that they are good but thinks that progesterone may need to be changed. I am however interested in your hormone testing kit, is it from Medichecks by any chance? I used them once to try and get my T3 measured but I couldn't collect enough blood to get a result.  Please let me know how you get on.

Thanks again ladies. It helps so much to be able to talk about this with people who truly understand. I give my husband a running commentary about my moods but there's a limit to how much the poor man can take!

Wishing you all well and stay safe.

K.

[KarineT]

Kathleen,  I am sorry that you're still suffering from low mood.  This is one of the worst meno symptoms as far as I'm concerned.  Did you mention before that you have a thyroid disease?  Thyroid disorders can affect the mood as well.  Can you remind me how long you've been postmeno for?  Were you having the same issues during your reproductive years?  I've read somewhere that after a while the body adjusts to new oestrogen levels and things eventually settle down. It must be horrible for you though.  I am now 2 years postmeno and I constanrly worry about the potential for me to develop depression and/or severe anxiety.  I do hope that this will never be the case.  There's so much on the Internet and some say that things improve in postmeno and others say that things can get worse and they mention depression or an anxiety disorder.  At times I don't know what to believe.

[KarineT]

I was reading your message and your are just over 11 years postmeno so it doesn't make sense that you're still experiencing mood issues.  Has it been like this as soon as you were postmeno or did it gradually get worse over the years?  Have you got the right level of HRT?  Also, would a blood test help determine your oestrogen level?  I think it should more reliable now that you are well into postmeno.  Hormones in at this stage don't fluctuate that much, if at all, as they are supposed to reach a low but stable level.

[Nas]

Just re read your post Kathleen and wonder whether you need more oestrogen, as those symptoms are quite typical of low oestrogen i thought? But then your actual levels are quite good with the 3 sachets.. very odd all of this?

As Karine said, you would have thought that your levels would feel stabilised by now? Do you think you could on TOO much?

Its all very tricky to navigate I find. So much second guessing and trial and error! 

Or could you trial a different progesterone? I know utrogestan is meant to be body identical, but something is causing these low moods etc?

Xxx

[Postmeno3]

Stabilising seems to have nothing to do with the amount of time involved postmeno, but more to do with striking the right very sensitive balance which will still be tipped by external impacts arising or the fluctuations of co-existing conditions. I imagine this to be extremely unique to each individual's responses.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies

Thank you all so much for your responses.

KarineT - The way I feel these days is definitely a post meno thing! I was still having periods when I read about the psychological symptoms in my trusty meno book and none of them resonated with me at the time. It was about  three years after my last period that my moods began to change. I have had many other meno issues such as hot flushes etc but the emotional ones are sticking around unfortunately. Having said that, there are times when I feel back to normal and believe me I treasure those times!

I have just looked at my latest blood test which was taken in May last year. My Oestradiol results were 633.37 pmol/L which is a good level according to my meno doctor.

My Thyroid blood tests show that I am taking the correct amount of Levothyroxine and my results are in the normal range.

Nas -  I honestly don't know if my mood changes are due to too much Oestrogen or too little!

I am now using a different progesterone called Cyclogest which is a pessary.

My meno doctor has asked me to stay on two and a half sachets and Cyclogest until the end of January when we will review.

Postmeno3 -   I  have experienced all sorts of challenges, as most of us have but these mood swings feel different. When faced with a situation I can feel calm, neutral or panicky depending on which mood state is dominating at the time, it all feels so random and unpredictable.

My low Thyroid could be contributing but this only started in 2019 and I am told that my levels are now normal.


Thanks again ladies for taking the time to reply. I appreciate your input so much.

I apologise for going on and on like a broken record but I know that you will all understand how I feel and won't judge me harshly!

Wishing every one of you well and take care.

K.