Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sgtvhilts]

Hi all,
I have been away from this site for nearly 3 yrs !!!! Why? Because I have been amazingly good !  and I guess we all dip out if life is good, until.........problems surface ):
So for nearly 4 yrs I have been on Femeston 2 mgs. with the odd extra patch (: Every month withdrawal bleed, no symptoms dah de dah. Until the end of August. Missed a bleed- 1st time and boy oh boy, night sweats back, gluey brain, forgetting words, and mood , oh wow, free fall- just can’t be bothered to get off the sofa, appallingly insomnia, slightest thing = tears y’all know how it goes.
GP- bless ‘em- changed antidepressants, wanting to add all sorts of psychotropics, but then for me a light bulb moment. Clearly my Oestrogen has dropped! Or at least that’s what I think.
I found an old 100mcg patch, slapped it on and within 12 hours fog started to clear!!!
Question is where to go from here. I clearly need more Oestrogen, I read somewhere that if you have life long MH troubles higher doses are essential, but of course no one will prescribe over them guidelines. I have in the past tried patches and other progesterones, but femeston suited me best
So- what is the highest dose of Oestrogen in any form that anyone has ever had? What is the general view when you are on max dose, but just ain’t enough?
All info greatly received.
Thanx

[sheila99]

I was told 6 pumps gel (150) by a specialist, many GPs will only prescribe 100. Maybe ask for a referral to a meno clinic if your GP is reluctant to prescribe more? People are prescribed more than 150 but usually based on blood tests that show levels are too low.

[Sgtvhilts]

Hi
Thanx,
Ye- the old blood test. About 3 yrs ago my oestriodol was 1,000 (: and I felt gooooood, but my GP had a dicky fit and said wooha way to high, she rang the Gynae registrar who said, get this “ oh, it should be no more than 180” LOL !!  So you see what I’m probably up against !  So much for going on symptoms eh, I wouldn’t be out of my bed if my oestrogen was 180!
I was reading some very interesting papers, mostly American about women with lifelong depression/ anxiety will always need a high blood oestrogen and much higher Oestrogen doses they mentioned , but only once in the whole paper 5-25 mgs ! Can you imagine trying to get that prescribed !! with what I was previously told!
If I add the patch I slapped on to the oral dose I reckon it would be about 6mgs, again imagine who would prescribe that!
I wonder what the highest dose of folk on here have ever been prescribed?

[Sgtvhilts]

Forgot to add,
Do withdrawal bleedS always  stop on sequi, when meno has moved on. Or should I be thinking about other causes?

[Floo36]

A good menopause specialist will not go on dose amount but on treating symptoms.  I have absorption problems and take very little in of any HRT and still struggling. Can you see a specialist?

[Sgtvhilts]

Hi thanx
There in lies the problem, the ‘local specialists ‘ are at meno clinic in the gynae department ! The very same who suggested 180 for oestradol !!! It is one nurse who runs alongside the gynae’s.
My patch was an old one I found- the only one  , so I have no more .
There is a ‘private’ outfit, but quite expensive and I am reluctant to shell out in case I get the same flannel, hence why I am trying to arm myself with as much info as possible if I am going to do battle. That is why I am fishing around for what doses other people have been prescribed.
Still wondering as well , if my ( only ever)missed bleed on sequi was 1) meno progress - do bleed eventually stop on sequi or should they continue. 2) does a missed bleed indicate an oestrogen drop or something else I should follow up?
Cheers

[Dougalina]

Hi

I am on 100mg patch plus 2 pumps of gel.  Recent blood tests showed levels of 141.95 pmo/L , which is in the normal range, so I'm obviously a poor absorber.  I am under a specialst clinic, who are happy with that.  Im getting tested again in 4 months.

D.

[VictoryV]

Forgot to add,
Do withdrawal bleedS always  stop on sequi, when meno has moved on. Or should I be thinking about other causes?

Hi, I was just about to ask this question! 

[Hurdity]

Hi Sgtvhilts

Firstly 2 mg Oestrogen in Femoston is not classed as a high dose but a medium dose so it may well be that this is insufficient for your needs.

Secondly if you are peri-menopausal and still ovulating, then blood tests are meaningless because a level of 1000 pmol/l is consistent with the ovulatory peak irrespective of whether you are taking HRT, and if you were taking cyclical HRT and ovulating you don't know when in the cycle that blood test was taken.

If your night sweats came back then to me that shows your oestrogen level has now dropped too low for you - irrespective of what blood tests show, and the fact that you felt better after putting on a patch supports that.

Also the fact that your bleeds have tailed off also supports 1) you are becoming menopausal or have reached menopause 2) the oestrogen dose is insufficient to over-stimulate your uterus lining and your progesterone dose is sufficient to mean by the end of the progesterone course it is not thick enough to shed.

The other explanation could be gut or other changes affecting oral absorption?

My withdrawal bleeds on sequi HRT stopped when I was about 57 or 58 and then I changed to longer cycle because I knew I could do so safely on the basis of how my uterus reacted. According to this website 15 % of women do not bleed on sequi HRT.

Anyhow the upshot is I would change HRT....I don't know how old you are  - but sounds like time to consider changing HRT eg back to a patch and maybe separate progesterone? There are lots of options - well not the progesterone though unfortunately....It may well be that to feel good you can cope with some of the downsides of the progestogens in order to feel good on the oestrogen.

And to reiterate that 100 mcg patch for example is considered high but should give you more oestrogen than 2 mg oral oestrogen - on average (though you may be atypical).

Hope this helps

Hurdity x

[Sgtvhilts]

Hi Hurdity,
I remember from my previous ramblings on here, that you really were/are an amazing source of amazing info, yet again you have answered my questions beautifully x.
I am as ever a very untypical type of gal. I have managed to acquire a box of 100mcg patches ( Don’t ask, but I think the source will be an ongoing one  ) slapped another one on Thursday night.
Well guess what? Last night I slept ALL night, my mood is starting to lift, that all may well be a bit psychosomatic, but hey. But also my undercarriage feels less like it has broken glass in there and bladder issues are less troublesome.
Back in July my cholesterol was noted to be through the roof, which is again symptomatic of low oestrogen! The last time it rocketed was 3 months postnatal- again following a drop in Oestrogen. Do medics never make the links!!!!
I am the grand old age of 52! Mum meno’d  at 50. So I guess I am probably now too.
BUT-  I know I’ll get ‘grief’ of the medics; “ can’t do this, or that dah de dah” now that I know what it is and know that for now I’m not going nuts, I think I will just carry on and sort myself out LOL. Not sure I can be bothered to do battle. and feeling like the proverbial while I do it. I mean who is going to know !!!!! LOL. I am fully aware of the so called ‘dangers’ and will deal with them if they crop up. As I always say “I have to live now”
I’ve tried quite a few progesterones over the years and let’s just say dydrogestone is the only one that doesn’t send me around the bend !!!, sick, etc etc.
So , thank you for make sense of a load of stuff for me. Nice one.x

[Sgtvhilts]

Ah,
Now I’ve been doing some ‘investigation’ 😂
I’ve been thinking ........
Does anyone know if you can use patches and the mini pill as the progesterone???
I LOVE dydrogesterone ( the one in femeston) , none of the other typical hrt progesterones agree with me, sooooooo I was thinking as I need more oestrogen than the 2mg femeston gives me, then is it possible to use the mini pill with desogestel ( similar to dydrogestone)  for 14 days a month and 100mcg patches???
Just wondering if there is some major no no with this combo- it might just ‘solve’ my troubles ( although probably not 😂)

[racjen]

I'm currently on evorel 125 patches and do go up to 150 if I feel the need. I have been prescribed as high as 200 for short periods by a private menopause specialist. Like you my mental health goes haywire if my estrogen is too low, which for me means anything much below 1000pmol. Luckily the specialist I saw recognised that mood related symptoms often do need much higher levels of estrogen.

[Hurdity]

Hi there S - I answered on your other thread!

Hurdity x