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[Amazing grace]

Hi I'm new to the forum, have read many posts but never posted before so apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place, still working out how this works.
So I just give you some background about my situation, I have been on hrt for 4 years and have never felt good on it, I'm plagued by nasty side effects and generally fed up of trying to get it right, 5 years ago at age 43 I had an hysterectomy but retained ovaries, 7 months post op, blood test says I was menopausal, as I was feeling dizzy all the time and awful insomnia so I requested gp test me, started on estrogel 2xpumps, actually got on OK with it, still suffered horrible insomnia but at around 8 months was constantly getting thrush comfirmed by swabs done by doctor, thrush is listed as a side effect on estrogel but when I asked gp he said he doubt it was the cause never suffered thrush in my life until I used estrogel, changed to everol 50,thrush went but horrible acid reflux, lower back pain, bloating, anxiety, insomnia got worse, shaky weak legs, awful ear congestion and headaches spent the next 3 years going from everol 25,50 and 75 trying to find a balance to no avail, gp is pretty rubbish I generally have to tell them what I want, also had problems with patch sticking generally didn't like them as prefer the gel method, then may this year asked gp for estrodot patch read good things about it plus its tiny compared to everol, started on 50,but felt absolutely awful, all the above side effects, but also had severe neck shoulder pain, aching chest hot sweats and felt very jittery, and lightheaded to the point I didn't feel safe going out or driving so gp moved me to estrodot 75 saying due to my age now 48 I need the higher dose, and my symptoms were low estrogen although they will not test me, well the estradot 75 where complete hell, the above got worse and while on it I developed a very bad uti, antibiotics sorted it but was now left with constant burning vulva, frequent urination to an unbearable level, the side effects got bad so stopped estradot and went back to everol and I have always done the 3 months on any new hrt, I asked gp for vagifem, absolutely a nightmare made every thing worse the swelling and burning was something else, I stopped that after 3 months, and used nothing vaginally and it all calmed down and felt normal again, decided that patches just are not for me, so I am now am back to estrogel up to 3x pumps a day, now back to ear congestion lightheaded, bloated, awful headache, insomnia, jittery and burning vulva and bladder irritation again, tryed ovestin for that, but same effect as vagifem bad swelling and burning, haven't been back to gp yet, as I'm just trying to ride it out, but I've reacted worse to estrogel this time, so I guess my question is should I now just accept hrt is not going to work for me, are there ladies out there struggling like me what did you do, I've lost so much of my life to this, I suffer horrible anxiety anyway and I feel like I have no quality of life, Im ill all the time, everyone talks about estrogen being the wonder hormone and I'm lucky not to have to use progesterone but this definitely is not the case for me, any advise would be appreciated, sorry this is so long.

[Pippa52]

Really feel for you.  Hormones really can be a nightmare.  I am not doing well on HRT either at the moment.  Was on Oestrogel for over 20 years but then they changed the formula and it make me feel dreadful.  I was changed on to Lenzetto spray just over 3 months ago but am finding it impossible to get that right either and feeling just awful  so have a consult tomorrow where it was suggested previously to go on to patches so suspect that is what I will be put on but its all a bit of a nightmare so I really empathise with you. Do hope you can find something that suits you.  Have you seen a Menopause specialist?

[Amazing grace]

Hi pippa52 thankyou so much for your reply, I wonder if the estrogel is now different to when I was first using it, because 4 years ago other than thrush I didn't have all these side effects, I actually asked my gp to try lenzetto but said it's not on there system to prescribe, but you say you not having any joy with it, so probably just aswell I didn't get it, Ive never seen a menopause specialist, my gp surgery are generally not interested in helping me at all, there answer is to just keep increasing the dose, which makes everything worse, I'm sorry that you are also struggling with hrt, if you try patches I hope you get relief with them, it's such a nightmare trying to get it right, thankyou for your reply.

[Amazing grace]

Sorry I just noticed that you said they did change the formula in estrogel, this explains why I'm not doing well on it this time round, oh dear not sure where I go from here 

[CherrySG]

I'm really sorry, it sounds like you are having such a tough time.

Would it be worth asking for tablet HRT? Some women on here use it although I haven't tried it myself.

I had reflux really badly on Hrt, and it made me too exhausted and brain-fogged to function. And depressed, too! Systemic HRT is not for everyone, despite the prevailing school of thought. Miracle for some, hell for others. The gel causes lots of us to bloat uncomfortably too, whereas patches don't do this, but the reflux from constantly downloading estradiol into the system is worse.

Utis are sometimes caused by the change in the vaginal pH when we're menopausal. I'd expect the vagifem and Ovestin to help, but it takes ages. Like a year, sometimes. To stop Ovestin stinging maybe mix it with a moisturiser for that area? Lots of us like Olive and Bee as it has no nasty additives.

[Amazing grace]

Thankyou cherrysg , I totally agree about miracle for some and hell for others, kind of feel those that it works well for can't seem to agree that some of us can have these kind of problems with it, I may well consider the tablet, but worried side effects would be worse with that method but might be my only option now, and thanks for the tip with mixing the ovestin with moisturiser I will definitely try that.
Thank you for taking the time to reply

[CherrySG]

Oh you are welcome! I hope something works. GPs are sometimes unable to help with menopause symptoms, and this site is a godsend.

I do agree that sometimes people don't accept that more oestrogen isn't good for everyone. Someone on here described it as the Goldilocks hormone, too much or too little is a disaster. Anything other than vaginal oestrogen is a bad choice for some of us. As you still have your own ovaries maybe they make enough. And there is a school of thought that our bodies produce additional oestrogen sites to compensate, which is why plenty of women do fine without HRT.

Maybe someone else who's had a similar operation will be along with some additional ideas.

[pepperminty]

Hi,

 just a quick thought- Maybe try starting very low - a half pump for 3 months and see how you go and then increase by a tiny bit more. I am sensitive to increases and increasing by a quarter of a tablet in a month works for me .   Let your body settle on the small amount and then increase again very slowly?
Hope you get some relief soon.  Also keep a diary it can help to pin point symptoms .


PMXX

[Amazing grace]

thank you pepperminty, thats good advice wish i had of actually started really low instead of going straight in at the medium dose every time, maybe my body really only needs that, and the dose has just been too high all long, my gp insists i should increase every time i complain about side effects which has only made things worse, could i please ask if you find the tablet form good,im considering trying it as its the only form of hrt i have not tried my gp put me off it saying it was not as safe as the patches and gel,but it just may be worth a try for me at this stage.
thank you for your reply you have all been so kind

[pepperminty]

Hi Amazing grace,

No probs - we all try to help when we can. I started on Femosten 1/10 and found I had terrible symptoms PMT crying felt crap etc. But i stuck with it for 3 months and began to feel better, but not quite there, so i take an extra half a zumeonon( the estrogen part of the tablet) every other day. 

 The risk with oral hrt is to do with blood clots - but it is tiny and only increases after 60 . There is more risk with smoking and drinking and being overweight.  There are several oral types of estrogen. One is man made premarine , but my gynae said he had very good results with that and the chap ( who's name I have forgotten , ) who wrote "estrogen Matters" thinks it is a good one. There is just the ethical side. But quality of life , and all that.  look on the search boxes above.

So do not expect things to get better overnight. I nearly gave up several times, but I know that the risks of osteoporosis and heart disease and a sore vagina, far outweigh anything else for me.

Slowly slowly wins the race- small size of a pump, wait and see - no change after a couple of months- brilliant - no side effects . Then increase . It may take you a year , but hopefully you will get there.


I would try and stick with the gel if you can  for 3 months . Also sometimes we stress about every feeling ( I know i do) and blame it on HRT. Increase slowly and see. It took Liz Earle 18 months before she got the right dose for her.

As for the thrush and vaginal issues. try the weaker estriol cream , just on the outside to plump up and strenghten. Again pea sized amount every other day or less - wait and see - no reaction - up a day . stay same for a week or so.
Try using YES VM internally every day to balance out the V. They recommended this to my friend and  her V settled. You can by a syringe on the internet .

But do not put anything on/in there that burns. The V can get traumatised and react to everything. less in more.

Also a vulval dermatologist may help to rule out the cause of outside inflammation- could be dermatitus etc. Cytolitic vaginosis -  long chain lactobacili can all cause similar symptoms and most doctors don't know what they are .  The local GUM clinic  can diagnose. But even some of them wont have heard of these!


Excuse the hurried reply and typo's as only have a moment , but I did not want to keep you waiting.

Oh and treat yourself , do something nice and get good quality sleep if you can as stress makes it all much worse.

Keep us informed

PMXX

[Jasmine20]

This is a really interesting discussion for me as I was coasting on Evorel 50 when I got what I now think was a dodgy batch of patches in the summer. They had weird plain packaging and my symptoms started returning within about a week of using them. Theramax insisted they were ok but then they would (I've put in a yellow card complaint).

I ended up going up to Evorel 75 and could only cope for 6 days. They triggered awful reflux, gallbladder pain and burping, exhaustion and headaches. I felt poisoned by them.

I went back on the old patches but the digestive problems never entirely went away and then got worse.

I was putting on weight and feeling very lethargic, insisted on a thyroid function test and have just discovered I have an underactive thyroid which I think was triggered by messing around with my estrogen. Hypothyroidism can cause digestive issues like reflux, low stomach acid, gallstones and bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine.

I wonder how many women on HRT get the same problem?

I'm not sure what to do next because systemic estrogen is vital for keeping my VA at bay. I've tried cutting my Evorel 50 in half which is better then taking 1 pump of Oestrogel but I feel lost.

[Amazing grace]

Peppermint, thankyou so much for all that information, it's very helpful with lots of very good advice, I will let you know how I do, I will definitely ask for the weaker vaginal cream, and get yes vm moisturiser and I think you are right about stressing about every feeling, I do absolutely do that, thanks so much for taking the time to send all that advice I appreciate it.

Jasmin20, which hrt are you using now? Do you use vagifem or ovestin for va? Or is it controlled by the systemic hrt, I too felt in the summer of this year that the everol were not as good as they used to be, so ended up back on the gel, I have wondered about thyroid myself but trying to see a gp and get a blood test right now is almost impossible, I do hope you start to feel better soon.

[Jasmine20]

Amazing grace - I'm using Ovestin, sometimes diluted in YES oil based lubricant or Olive and Bee, a weaker estriol cream and Imvaggis which is a hard suppository and also much weaker than Ovestin.

I'm trying to rotate different things rather than get stuck using one product.

I saw a kinesiologist today who confirmed using muscle testing that the HRT had messed up my thyroid. She wants me to keep my estrogen patch to a minimum and has given me some thyroid supplements in the meantime. The plan is to see if I can get off the systemic HRT without my VA flaring - I'm not so sure that will be possible but willing to try. I am considering getting a vSculpt pelvic floor device which can apparently help with VA and is cheaper than a professional laser treatment.

[pepperminty]

Hi if you can afford it medichecks do online testing- I think you can get a voucher code  /discount if you google - or wait as they have special offers - Thyroid tuesday I think.

All above board - doctors use them . You can get estrogen readings also - I  do once a year as a reference point.

PMXX

[Floo36]

I really feel for you because I am still suffering with all of your symptoms.  I have been trying for over 2 1/2 years, I have a problem with taking in any form of Estrogen.  My own hormones are still fluctuating wildly.  I’ve exhausted all options apart from the implant now which I would have to find the money for but also you still need a back up as it runs out, that’s if it works in the first place.  My GP is now not happy prescribing the amount of HRT I’m having to take as she doesn’t understand and still thinks like a lot of GPs that Estrogen is dangerous, not getting my hormone back is dangerous to my life.  I’m under one of the best specialist and my GP is still trying to get me off HRT.

It doesn’t look like you have tried that high a dose of anything yet and if like me you don’t absorb much you may need a lot more to get symptom relief.  Some of us may only absorb 10% or less of HRT. 

Keep going you have more to try yet.