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[SueLW]

So good to hear some reviews of Lenzetto! I’m hoping that will be recommended at my Newson clinic appt as I’ve tried everything else and just cannot get my levels up! I was in 5mg Sandrena and they barely got above 500 still with lots of symptoms

You will get it from the Newson clinic if you ask. I didn’t absorb patches and gel made me feel weird. I love the spray.

[EllaAurora]

So good to hear some reviews of Lenzetto! I’m hoping that will be recommended at my Newson clinic appt as I’ve tried everything else and just cannot get my levels up! I was in 5mg Sandrena and they barely got above 500 still with lots of symptoms

You will get it from the Newson clinic if you ask. I didn’t absorb patches and gel made me feel weird. I love the spray.

Hi SueLW,
I'm curious, when you say gel made you feel weird, what do you mean? In what way, like side effects or something else? I'm asking as I didn't get on with patches at all and am not well on gel either. Feeling all the time like something is 'off' and I'm not myself. Also feeling the gel is absorbing too quickly and I get highs and lows which cause symptoms.
Currently considering if to move to oral in the next cycle or whether to ask from gynae to try Lenzetto as a last resort. I'm just wondering if gel and patches don't work for me, would Lenzetto be any different as its also transdermal. But it seems there are ladies who actually found the solution with Lenzetto after trial and error with other transdermals.
Take care! xxx

[SueLW]

Hi SueLW,
I'm curious, when you say gel made you feel weird, what do you mean? In what way, like side effects or something else? I'm asking as I didn't get on with patches at all and am not well on gel either. Feeling all the time like something is 'off' and I'm not myself. Also feeling the gel is absorbing too quickly and I get highs and lows which cause symptoms.
Currently considering if to move to oral in the next cycle or whether to ask from gynae to try Lenzetto as a last resort. I'm just wondering if gel and patches don't work for me, would Lenzetto be any different as its also transdermal. But it seems there are ladies who actually found the solution with Lenzetto after trial and error with other transdermals.
Take care! xxx

I felt it absorb really fast (within 20mins of application if not faster) and it gave me a rush of anxiety and a swoosh of heat and sweat.  So I'd get up, washed, apply gel, get dressed and by the time I was downstairs I was dripping sweat off my hair, my face was soaking and I was hot as heck.  This didn't happen when I split my dose and took some in the evening.  Only the morning application.  And I felt it run out.  I never seemed to build up a reserve of it.  I could increase my dose but the same things happened.

I liked patches, but I didn't absorb them well.  I didn't absorb the gel well either, I guess because it was in and out in a rush.  I could not get levels up.  I was told to try adding a spray of Lenzetto to my patch, which I did but it felt too much.  So in the end I got rid of the patch and started on spray alone.  It's well worth trying before you go to a tablet.  It's been the best of them all for me.  Now I have the problem that my bloods are probably too high (1,656 at last check) and oestrogen is binding to my thyroid meds and stopping them working.  So I still feel terrible, but it's from rapidly worsening thyroid bloods. 

It's taken months for me to work out what was going on.  Clinic doctor not interested.  Endocrinologist sort of on the right track but not given me a plan to test my theory.  On Monday I didn't take my morning oestrogen.  I thought I would leave it for 36hrs and then apply, which means I apply the spray in the evening now and take thyroid meds in the morning.  It's helped a bit, but not enough.  However, the day I didn't apply any oestrogen was a fab day.  I have energy.  I felt my thyroid meds work.  I felt happy.  So if shifting my oestrogen 12hrs from my thyroid meds isn't giving me the same benefits I am left thinking that I need to reduce the spray a little and see if I can replicate that good day.  I've also added in some extra progesterone just in case there's anything in the idea of oestrogen dominance.  I'm not sure about that.  Seems largely an American alternative practitioner idea.  But I will see how I go.  I use a Mirena coil for womb health.  I just happened to have some Utrogestan on hand so I'm experimenting with that.

[EllaAurora]

Hi SueLW,
Thanks for your reply! I've had exactly the same with gel -it absorbs way too quickly, especially when I applied shortly after shower or bath (I guess skin is somehow softer and takes it in even quicker). I usually nowadays manage to avoid the 'rush' and the anxiety that follows after applying if I apply to a very large area of skin, and leave some time between bath/shower and applying the gel, but then again I'm wondering if applying to a really large area decreases the absorption.. so its yet another uncertainly here  I also feel the effect running out, even though I apply twice a day. All in all, just don't seem to find a balance with gel, not matter how much I try.

Strangely enough, I had the same with patch. I was absorbing too fast -felt the rush a few hours after, then started feeling the dose wearing off already on the second day and overall felt even worse with the patch, so switched back to gel to give it one more try. My worry is that maybe my skin/blood circulation, or something else in how my body works that just doesn't get on well with transdermal. But hearing all the positive experiences on Lenzetto..perhaps I should give it a try before giving up on the transdermal idea. It would be so good to find a solution without going to tablets.

Hope you get your situation sorted soon and glad to hear Lenzetto is working so well for you!! xxx

[Sazzle42115]

Hello
I have just increased from 2 to 3 as not absorbing very well. Menopause specialist said to see how that goes and then we can look at increasing to 4?
Only been on increased dose for a couple of days so hard to tell

[Wrensong]

Sorry ladies, to take this briefly off track, but want to chat with SueLW about the thyroid-HRT interaction probs she's experiencing.  SueLW, sorry to know you're still struggling to balance your meds & sympathise, as same here.  Needing both thyroid replacement & HRT certainly seems to complicate the situation & can be a devil to juggle.  I'm interested in your hunch that progesterone might affect your thyroid status & have messaged you with a link I hope might help you make some progress.
Wx

[SueLW]

I'm interested in your hunch that progesterone might affect your thyroid status & have messaged you with a link I hope might help you make some progress.
Wx

Hi Wrensong

Thanks for thinking of me. 

You say you have messaged me.  How do I find a message?

[SueLW]

Sorry ladies, to take this briefly off track, but want to chat with SueLW about the thyroid-HRT interaction probs she's experiencing.  SueLW, sorry to know you're still struggling to balance your meds & sympathise, as same here.  Needing both thyroid replacement & HRT certainly seems to complicate the situation & can be a devil to juggle.  I'm interested in your hunch that progesterone might affect your thyroid status & have messaged you with a link I hope might help you make some progress.
Wx

Oops! Found the messages section the moment I sent the last post up.

[Pippa52]

Hi - I have recently changed to Lenzetto from Oestrogel (which I was on for over 20 years) as Oestrogel manufacturers Besins slightly changed the formulation which made me feel really awful.  I was told to start on one spray of Lenzetto for a week then up it to 2 sprays.  2 sprays was way too much for me and one spray not enough so I have been experimenting with blocking off 2/3rds of the spray area and using one and then a 1/3rd of a spray.  Still getting many hot flushes but am being reviewed by the Menopause specialist in October but would rather stick at this dose and see if I can level out as the higher dose was way too high for me.  My oestrogen levels were 98 but the specialist said she was not aiming for a high oestrogen level on the Lenzetto just the dose that makes me feel ok.  I do love the Lenzetto it is so easy to use.  She did mention adding possibly some testosterone at the review.  x

[dibradley]

Hi SueLW,
I wondered how you were getting on now. I also take thyroid meds and have started with Lenzetto. I thought taking transdermal was safer and not an issue for thyroid meds. But clearly there are issues for you, so was curious if you have managed to solve it?
Thanks

[Wrensong]

Hi dibradley, as this is an old thread & I think SueLW hasn't been active on the forum for a while she may not see your question.  So, just wanted to welcome you, as another hypothyroid member & to suggest that if you don't hear from SueLW after a while, you may like to set up a new thread asking for hypothyroid members' experiences of using Lenzetto.

There are a number of hypo women on the forum & some of us have indeed found that even transdermal methods affect our thyroid levels, though taking oestrogen this way, as you rightly say, is said to be less likely to interact with our thyroid replacement.  My sense, as a member for several years, is that it's those of us on T3 as well as Thyroxine who are more likely to find we need to adjust our thyroid dose as a result of HRT use.   It's just a possibility to be aware of.

Hopefully you will not find your thyroid levels are affected, but I would try to have a TFT after 6 weeks on HRT for peace of mind, then again at 3 months. 

I hope you find Lenzetto works well for you.  I have used it but not for long enough to give you any helpful feedback wrt my thyroid levels at the time.  It is certainly easy to use, so easy to love if it works well 
W x

[dibradley]

Hi there,
Thank u for replying. I have only been using HRT for 4 weeks and having my bloods checked tomorrow. I am worried about it. Because l don’t feel any better yet after using the Lenzetto… I’ve got this terrible anxiety that is just debilitating. The docs all want to give me anti depressants but I am convinced that this is due to my hormones. Just scared all the time and wanting to feel better. I appreciate your reply. Still figuring out how to use this forum. But may I ask if you also apply your Lenzetto in the mornings and what dose you are on? I have increased my dose to 3 sprays but now have to give it time…. So they say? Was hoping that HRT would help me with my sleep, anxiety and hot flushes but so far it has only helped with hot flushes and I’m just scared u know?

[Wrensong]

Hi dibradley, can I ask do your bloods being tested tomorrow include a TFT?  I'm wondering whether it's possible your thyroid dose is now too high for you & that's perhaps causing/contributing to the anxiety, though anxiety is unfortunately very common in menopause regardless of thyroid status.  Our thyroid replacement needs can reduce as we age & this can take us unawares if we have been stable on a fixed dose of thyroid replacement for some time.  Sorry, you may be well aware of that, but it seemed worth a mention as persistent anxiety is a truly awful thing to endure.

I'm no longer on Lenzetto - I find I don't do well on the once a day oestrogen methods like gel & spray but get on better with the gradual release of patches, so that may be an option for you later, though as you say it's early days to know whether Lenzetto might be OK in the longer term.  Other possibilities are that oestrogen replacement does make some women feel anxious, especially if their dose is too high, or sometimes temporarily in the initial stages when the body is getting used to HRT.  Conversely, if you are not absorbing well from the spray, anxiety can be a consequence of too little oestrogen, so if you are having oestradiol tested tomorrow this will be helpful to know.  I'm sorry - it's a very imprecise science that sometimes needs quite a bit of perseverance to get right & it can be more complicated for hypothyroid women. 

You asked about time of application for the spray, we are usually advised to apply oestrogen early morning as some women find it stimulating, but some also split their dose morning & evening as that works better for them.  I tried both schedules with both gel & spray but simply couldn't get on with either & went back to patches.

Insomnia continues to be a major issue for me, so I get how debilitating that is, but once you can find your best HRT fit & tweak your thyroid meds if necessary, that should improve for you.

I completely understand your worries, having found the first 10 years (peri into postmeno before starting HRT) very frightening & isolating, as no one seemed sure whether thyroid or menopause were to blame for which symptoms nor how to remedy any of it, but you are not alone now you've found the forum so please keep posting, there are lots of lovely ladies here who will want to help.

Wx 

[dibradley]

Thanks for your reply!
It means a lot. It’s so hard to know what is going on with my body right now….

She’s only testing my iron and TSH levels. I’m a bit nervous of asking her to check my oestrogen and progesteron levels because it was such a battle to get HRT in the first place… I’m being ridiculous aren’t I?

I will ask her about testing the t3 levels too. I live in Holland btw…. Not much information here on HRT and they mostly go on vasomotor symptoms and not anxiety or low mood…. So it’s tough going….

I know that my symptoms were absolutely awful during my period. Which is why I knew it was hormonal.. the doc wants to give me antidepressants but have been reluctant to do that because I’m convinced that my issues are hormonal… but who knows?!

Maybe I should ask her to check my oestrogen and progesteron levels too and see … scared she takes me off though….

Grrrr

[Wrensong]

My pleasure, though of course never a pleasure to know someone is suffering, but what I mean is we are all happy to do what we can to try to help.

Yes, that's exactly it - it can be impossible to know what's going on for hypothyroid women during menopause, totally bewildering & I absolutely empathise with you on that.  But you will get through it.

And no, you're not being at all ridiculous not wanting to rock the boat with your doctor.  There is an imbalance of power in the doctor-patient relationship that can make things awkward.  Your doc will be well meaning & naturally you don't want to lose her support.  Not only that, but menopause can give our confidence a good kicking, making it very difficult for us to push against opposition if it arises.  Best advice is to try to get your doc to understand exactly how you are feeling so that you can (hopefully) work together to get you much better asap.  She would possibly think it too early to test your oestradiol level anyway, as you haven't been on Lenzetto that long, but I was simply thinking if the bloods you'd got lined up did include oestradiol it would at least give a snapshot of how well you are absorbing.

The TSH & iron will be helpful to know, so that's a start & if a T3 test is possible then that will give an indication of how well you are converting Thyroxine - I'm assuming you're not taking T3/NDT?

Some women do find they need an AD for a while & that can be very helpful, but I understand your reluctance to go down that route when you are only just starting to have the chance to find out what HRT can do for you.  But if you & your doctor come to the point where you both feel a trial of an AD is worthwhile, then you can try that for a while, either with or without HRT. 

We hypothyroid women are at a disadvantage from the outset because our bodies are already somewhat compromised by our thyroid replacement being a rather blunt instrument compared with the way a healthy thyroid fine tunes its activity as the situation demands.  And menopause can be one helluva situation .  Hang on in there & let us know any results you feel it might be helpful to share.
Wx

Later edit: I've only just seen from your post on Keep On Swimming's "Help" thread that you have only recently started on thyroid replacement & at a low dose, so please disregard my point earlier about our often needing less replacement as we age.  For some reason I'd got the idea you'd been on thyroid meds for some time.  Sorry!  It will be interesting to see what your TSH is on your current dose of Thyroxine nevertheless.  One your thyroid dose is right & your body has recovered from the effects of any deficiency before you started on it, you will be better placed to get the most out of your HRT.  It should not be too complicated to balance Thyroxine alone with HRT - it seems to be the small proportion of women who need T3 who can have a harder time finding the right combo.