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[Letmein]

2 years 1/2 into the menopause, 3 years peri before. The peri stage was much worse for me with dreadful symptoms and almost a full on breakdown. I tried HRT at the time, but only 2 months and saw no improvement.

Then became menopausal and gradually started to feel better. No more anxiety, no panic attacks, hot flushes only occasional and manageable. It would be just fine but for the crippling insomnia. Tried absolutely everything, including CBT but I continue to feel hyper at night and not able to switch off so decided to give hrt another go as read so many times how it sorted out sleep problems.

I'm on day 4 of oestrogen only (sandrena gel), opted for this regime as I couldn't tolerate the progesterone before so will it take for 10 days only (under the care of private/nhs gynea) and feel like I'm back into the peri. Feeling anxious for no reason at all, night sweats, hot flushes, diarrhea, and didn't close an eye at all last night much worse than ever before.

I wasn't expecting instant relief at all of course, but to go backwards? Has anyone experienced the same and if so, how long until it stops being worse? Or could be a case that I really can't tolerate hrt at all? I'll keep taking it but I'm quite gutted that it's so far making me feel so unwell.

[Letmein]

Should have mentioned, I'm only on 0.5mg!

[KatyB]

Replying really because I know that awful feeling of 'do I carry on or should I stop at once!'. My experience is that the first couple of weeks starting into a new treatment or first treatment are generally very uncomfortable, but I've only had one where my mental reaction was really extreme - the others were physical discomfort and it did settle somewhat, although to be honest when the right treatment came along it felt right quickly. But I would say don't keep on trying if you are feeling absolutely awful. But 4 days is very soon to judge it - your body is having to adjust to having a supply of oestrogen again having been on a reducing natural (fluctuating!) supply. Maybe see if every second day gets you gradually used to the gel - I found it had very little effect on me (gel - so changed to patches again) but there's many here who value it for the flexibility it offers....You may need just a very little top up...I would say though that I was advised to take the utrogestan (progesterone bit) at night on an empty stomach and I sleep like a log especially first week of it....so you might find it has a better effect if you take it that way.

[Letmein]

Thank you Katy for your response. I decided to apply the gel early in the afternoon yesterday and did sleep much better. Now moved to morning application which I think will be better. Got bad headache but can cope with this for now so will persevere.

[Kathleen]

Hello Letmein.

I wanted to sympathise with you and I agree that the question of 'do I keep going or do I try something else?' is a constant one.

I am back on HRT after a long break and in some ways I am no better than before. My meno doctor implies that as soon as I hit the magic number for Oestrogen all will be well. I want to believe that but I assumed I would be seeing some improvements by now. Instead, like you I feel that I am going backwards.

I am due a blood test and will be hearing from my doctor shortly afterwards so if anything of interest pops up I will let you know.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Gnatty]

Hi Letmein, I think my anxiety levels increased when I first started HRT, almost like I was drinking a shed load of coffee. I am pleased to report it soon settled down. I do hope your symptoms quieten down too.

[Letmein]

Good luck Kathleen, it's so demoralising when you hear it read other women starting to feel better within days and you are no further along months later. do let me know what your doctor says.

Garry, you've described exactly how I feel and have failed to explain until now. That's it, how you feel after you had too much coffee (which takes only one for me as I don't ever drink it!). So pleased to read it settled down for you.

It's much more manageable rubbing the gel in the morning. I get that coffee overdose rush feeling about 3 hours later, so much better manageable than after going to bed.

I'll keep going and hopefully will start to feel the benefits at some point soon. 

[Lamplighter]

Hi Letmein, like some have said in their replies, the timing of oestrogen could make a big difference.  When I started on oestrogel pumps and daily utrogestan, I took/used the lot at night and had an awful time trying to sleep - heart rate up, tinnitus through the roof, anxiety, toss turn etc etc.  Separated into oestrogen at night and progesterone in the morning and that seemed to help, but only a bit.  Then switched to spreading the pumps during the day but was still finding sleep difficult.

Until I read that progesterone can make you drowsy and is called the 'sleepy hormone' so decided to switch to pumps only in the morning and took the prog at night.  Amazing the difference!  It feels like taking a sleeping pill. Not long after taking it I start to feel a bit spaced and sleepy but in a pleasant sort of way, and am sleeping much better.

I suspect it's the oestrogen that wired me at night, so switching the timing was most definitely the right thing for me. You haven't said when you take it, but when you do take the progesterone, compare how you feel if you take it at night, it might help with the sleep. 

I'm not sure, but I assume that given time, you get used to the oestrogen in your system and sleep should improve.  You can only hope. 

Best of luck xx

LL

[Letmein]

Thank you Lamplighter.
I totally agree with the timing. Taking Oestrogen in the morning is much better.

I suspect it's the oestrogen that wired me at night

This is what is so confusing. It's because of that symptom that I decided to go back in hrt as everything indicates that it's the lack of oestrogen that brings on anxiety and nervousness. However, I am finding myself all wired up a couple of hours after rubbing the gel!

I'm hoping that what it comes down to is giving it long enough for levels to stabilise through the day and stopping the hikes and it's at this stage that the symptoms go away.

I will only be taking progesterone for 10 days every 4 weeks as I couldn't tolerate it before.

[Letmein]

Just thought I'd update in case someone else finds themselves in the same position as it's clearly not one expected!

I'm on day 17 of oestrogen and the hot flushes and night sweats are increasing whilst my sleep is getting no better! I woke up 8 times last night.

I was convinced during the peri phase that the oestrogen surges were what was causing me issues and my current experience on hrt only seems to confirm it!

I'm sticking to it as advised. Hope to come back soon to report that the sweats are gone again and sleep is finally better!

[EllaAurora]

Hi Letmein,

I have experienced somewhat similar situation as you, in terms of reaction to oestrogen increase.

I was on initially on 1 pump Oestrogel, which worked great and I had no adverse reactions at all. Then 3 months ago I had a change, which felt like my own oestrogen levels dropped radically, which of course can happen in peri. All symptoms that had been alleviated came back, plus some new ones too. So I figured with the gynae that I will need to increase the gel. But, it wasn't that simple. First I tried to put 2 pumps, which caused a bad anxiety/panic like reaction ca 1-2 hour after applying the gel. It was awful. I tried couple of times and the same reaction, in varying degrees, followed.

Then I moved to split the dose, applying 1 pump am/1 pump pm, and that has helped. But interestingly, when I tried to further up, as I"d really need 3 pumps/day, got the same reaction again. So now I am in process of increasing the tiniest amount, like a 1/4 of a pump and keeping that for couple of days and gradually trying to end to a regime of 2 pumps evening/1 pump morning. Not yet sure how this will go, but keeping fingers crossed that slowly is the way that works for me. Could it be the same for you too? Maybe your body already got used to having very little oestrogen and now adding it suddenly back would cause these reactions?

You mention also the insomnia. I know people are different here, for me personally the Utrogestan works great for sleep and overall I feel more 'balanced' during the Utro phase rather than the Oestrogen only phase. I had the same already when I was still regularly menstruating. For me the best time of the month was the luteal phase when I had both oestrogen and progesterone in the system and I also remember often feeling  strangely nervous/jittery, during the time of ovulation (oestrogen peak).

Hope you feel better soon! xx

[Letmein]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think you've got it perfectly right. Like you I also had an anxiety like attack a couple of hours after taking it the first time. I had horrible panic attacks during peri to the point of fainting.

I'm becoming really convinced that for some people, these symptoms associated with low oestrogen are actually caused by oestrogen surges, hence some woman, like me, having a horrific time during the peri stage and coping better during the actual Meno.

Sadly, I didn't tolerate the progesterone part last time I tried HRT, got horrible bloating, depression and anger and no help with sleep! I'm on a 10 days every 4 weeks regime under gynae care, but I'm already dreading it. If I could start to see benefits of the oestrogen, it would be easier to face the progesterone one!

[EllaAurora]

Hi Letmein, how did your peri panic attacks resolve? Did you use some medication or they subsided on their own?

I'm now at the phase that it's not so much panic attacks or the sudden rushes any longer (though I did have a panic attack out of the blue yesterday, which I connected with low blood sugar as I'd forgotten to eat). It's now more like a steady feeling of anxious and like in a 'cloud' the whole day.  Mornings are especially bad -some mornings, even if I've slept OK (which I increasingly do either with the support of melatonin or utrogestan) -I still wake up feeling super bad. Heart racing and just so anxious and unreal feeling.  It takes usually until noon, or early afternoon to somehow balance. I will try to add to regime some morning exercise, as 'm hoping that I could burn off some of that cortisol/adrenalin before starting the day. Will report if that helps.

Have you tried anything else for the sleep? Like sleeping pills or melatonin?

Take care and hoping for better days to come! xx