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Author Topic: VA flare - advice please  (Read 1508 times)

Jasmine20

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VA flare - advice please
« on: May 02, 2021, 06:07:17 PM »

I posted recently about whether you can use vaginal HRT with vaginal Utrogestan. I'd taken the latter on a sequi regime and hadn't used my usual Imvaggis and Ovestin and then felt dry after my period (probably due to using tampons for too long). This has also coincided with me noticing that if I sit for any length of time my coccyx is sore when I get up and my buttocks go numb very quickly. I was going to get some osteopathic treatment but I'm now wondering if this is a sign of my own estrogen levels dropping again.

I've had increased vaginal soreness now for the last 12 days and usually this blip would be over quickly with nightly treatment. This time it isn't budging and sex yesterday left me feeling really sore. How long do flares usually last? (How long is a piece of string?!)

I am on Evorel 50 patches for my estradiol so I tried adding a pump of leftover Estrogel for a few nights which seemed to help and then two pumps today and I felt more comfortable within an hour or so.

My question is should I ask my GP for some Estrogel to supplement with Evorel temporarily or just keep plugging away at local estrogen? I liked the fact I was on a medium dose of estradiol so that I had some wriggle room in future and I'm worried that I might find it hard to reduce the dose again.

I admit I'm impatient at the best of times but going back to avoiding jeans and finding walking a bit abrasive is miserable. It was systemic estrogen which sorted my VA out last autumn after months of misery and extreme anxiety. I'm 52, on a sequi regime but have found my symptoms can suddenly worsen rather than slowly decline.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 06:31:32 PM by Jasmine20 »
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CLKD

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2021, 07:07:31 PM »

It's lack of vaginal atrophy treatment probably.  Why can't you restart, doing a reload is a common problem if symptoms recur.  VA can be troublesome for Life, so using appropriate 'vagifem' or 'ovestin' regularly is important .  Some ladies need two 'vagifem' at once.

Osteopathic treatment will not replace a loss of oestrogen.  It may do more harm than good.  As oestrogen levels drop muscles may become lax = aches and pains as well as dryness: inside and out.

Let us know how you get on?
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Wrensong

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2021, 07:08:38 PM »

Hi Jasmin20, I'm in a similar situation in that 2 weeks after my latest bleed started, despite using Vagifem 5 nights a week throughout (& Estriol externally) I'm still sore & dry though finally starting to see a little healthy moisture return.  My bleeds tend to last 10 days or so (long cycle regimen), so the normal flora probably get really disrupted & all the good from topical oestrogen is temporarily undone. 

A gynae told me in early peri to avoid tampons as he said they are less suitable as we age.  He didn't explain that comment & I ignored him at first as I hated using towels, but soon found tampons were getting torn on removal because of dryness towards the end of a bleed.  He must have had VA in mind but at that stage I'd never even heard of it.  I'm reluctant to suggest you might think about using towels instead but just passing on his advice & what happened to me. 

I'm not on vaginal prog & one reason for that was because I found it worsened my VA, so if you need to use it that way I think you are in a difficult situation.  But taking oral MPA does that to me even before the bleed starts, though to a lesser extent than vaginal Utro did.

I haven't used Imvaggis, but wonder whether your VA might respond better to Vagifem if you haven't tried that?  I see Imvaggis is an Estriol preparation, so a weaker form of oestrogen than the oestradiol in Vagifem.  Vagifem 5 nights a week with 0.01% Estriol thinly applied externally (plus low dose systemic) helps keep me comfy most of the time, though even that doesn't replicate the comfort I had before peri began, ooh eons ago now!

I can't really answer whether you should increase your systemic oestrogen or wait for the effects of the topical to reassert themselves, except to suggest you choose whichever you are more (psychologically) comfortable with for now.  You can always review that decision later if need be. 

If you decide to up your systemic, do you have any of the Estradot 75mcg patches left (I think you were on these a couple of weeks ago when we last chatted) rather than having to get your GP to prescribe more gel?  Or did you stop those because of the headaches etc they seemed to be causing?

Another thought is that some form of conti regimen (with oral or transdermal prog or maybe an IUD), by avoiding bleeds after the settling in stage, should not interfere with the effects of your topical HRT to the same extent if you are in a position to go back to that rather than carry on with sequi.

Sorry, this probably isn't much help. :-\
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 07:24:02 PM by Wrensong »
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CLKD

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 07:12:44 PM »

Any suggestions are helpful  ;) - 1 can read, take on board, use or shelf for later.

Tampons: personally I was never able to use them due to having a 'short' vagina  ::).  Your mention of tampons being torn  :o makes my stomach go all funny ...... I found 'Kotex' towels stuck  :-\

As an aside, tampons should never be left due to the possibility of toxic shock syndrome.

Some require 'vagifem' nightly, occasionally two every so many evenings.  Occcaionslaly I have needed 'ovestin' in the afternoon wit 'nurofen' followed by another 'ovestin' dose at bed time.  It's the Trial and Error which can be so tiring!
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 07:21:45 PM by CLKD »
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Wrensong

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 07:51:22 PM »

Just thought - have you thought about having a little testosterone added to your regimen?  It can help with systemic dryness, including vaginal symptoms.  The extract below is from the following link by Drs Louise Newson & Alice Scott:-

https://dralicescott.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Testosterone.-BJGP-March-2020.-Scott-Newson.pdf

"It has also been shown to have additional benefits including the improvement of urogenital . . . symptoms"
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Jasmine20

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 08:02:28 PM »

Thanks for your responses. I really appreciate them!

I have considered Testosterone but my GP says I need to get it via a referral to an NHS Menopause Clinic. I've no idea what the waiting time currently is but otherwise I'd have to go private.

I unfortunately found I didn't tolerate Vagifem when I tried it last year. I still had a lot left and took it on two consecutive nights recently and found it irritated me again  :(
I think taking vaginal HRT every night for a few weeks has caused some irritation too so tonight I'll just use some YES VM and give myself a break. It's why taking the systemic estradiol was such a win because my vaginal soreness disappeared within a week. I've forgotten how miserable it is!! I have three sisters and none of them have had the same menopausal issues as me. I also have M.E. so this hormonal malarkey is the blooming cherry on the icing I can tell you!

I was on Evorel Sequi but the progestogen in it gave me awful lower abdominal pain that got worse with each cycle. My GP prescribed Provera recently but gave me 100mg tablets instead of 10mg over Easter and I ended up going back on the Utrogestan as I had some left over. This time it didn't cause bladder soreness but I find any progesterone sort of leaves me feeling scoured out if that makes sense? Perhaps that's another sign the balance between estradiol and progesterone isn't right.

I have never tried Estradot but I think I'll have to contact the GP on Tuesday morning and explain I want to go up to a 75mcg patch. She's a nice doctor but I think she is really more used to dealing with contraception than HRT although she's been very accommodating so at least I don't need to steel myself before appts.

I actually went to bed with just a sanitary towel at the start of my last period (I now only bleed for 3 days) and managed to bleed through the sheets and onto the mattress topper. Yuck! But I used some higher absorbency tampons than I usually do and I think that and not taking vaginal HRT during the Utrogestan phase might have tipped me over the edge.

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CherrySG

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2021, 08:15:49 PM »

Have you tried a mooncup? They aren't drying and can be emptied as needed, boiled after period is over, ready for next time?

I used to love mine. Also saves money over time and no environmental impact.
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Wrensong

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 08:22:19 PM »

Oh, shame about the Vagifem.  An afterthought - have you looked into Intrarosa?  It's a DHEA preparation.  Another possibility is Estring?

Yes, I have other health conditions too & menopause on top is an absolute pain, I agree.

Yes, prog's effects in opposing oestrogen affect all areas unfortunately, so I know what you mean by it feeling scouring.

FemSeven Sequi is due back on the market at some point this year I think - a 50mcg patch like Evorel Sequi but with a different progestogen - Levonorgestrel.  Maybe one to think about if you haven't tried that.

Quote
I have never tried Estradot but I think I'll have to contact the GP on Tuesday morning and explain I want to go up to a 75mcg patch.

I'm confused now  :o - was it not you who started the thread a couple of weeks ago about an Estradot patch falling off, headaches & irritability . . with this as first post . . .

"Hi, I just moved from Evorel conti to Estradot and vaginal prog. Couple of concerns. I just realised the patch I put on two days ago has fallen off! I never had that with the Evorel patch."

P.S. - sorry, my mistake I see you are Jasmine20 with an "e", the member I had chatted to about Estradot falling off etc has no "e"!
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 08:28:55 PM by Wrensong »
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CLKD

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 08:50:04 AM »

I can't understand anyone being able to use tampons if they suffer with VA  :-\ even though at that point the vagina is lubricated, obviously.

It's rarely the active ingredient that causes issues but the fillers or packaging of 'vagifem'.  MayB swap to 'ovestin'?  It's delivered as a cream into an applicator or can be inserted on the finger.

It's Trial and Error!
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Jasmine20

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 12:42:02 PM »

I've noticed a recent influx of 'Jasmines' on the forum too! Sorry for the confusion.

A mooncup is a great idea. I was ok on organic regular tampons but ran out and ended up using some higher absorbency ones. I did try to mitigate this by using YES lube before insertion but not everytime.

Intrarosa does look interesting as I've noticed some good feedback here. I did look online for reviews and found others had lots of side effects - all trial and error.



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Wrensong

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Re: VA flare - advice please
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2021, 07:44:33 AM »

No need to apologise Jasmine20 - my mistake  ::) :D!
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