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[Dandelion]

I have been here before
I take 50mcg gel, flushes much more bearable than a few years ago, some nights I dont get sweats at all, before I was like a furnace and needed 100mcg patch.
1 take 100mg oral utro and 100mg vaginal utro. I bleed nearly every day, I finally went to GP and hospital and they are all updated on my bleeding and my womb is fine.
I am on valium, and reducing it under the supervision of a psychiatrist, so there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

The HRT I just cannot be bothered with. Applying the gel every night.
The utrogestan is a pain, I just don't want to rely on a pharmacy for anything, I want to be free.

The problem is this
""Neuroactive steroids, e.g., progesterone and its active metabolite allopregnanolone, are positive modulators of the GABAA receptor and are cross tolerant with benzodiazepines.[27] The active metabolite of progesterone has been found to enhance the binding of benzodiazepines to the benzodiazepine binding sites on the GABAA receptor.[28] The cross-tolerance between GABAA receptor positive modulators occurs because of the similar mechanism of action and the subunit changes that occur from chronic use from one or more of these compounds in expressed receptor isoforms. Abrupt withdrawal from any of these compounds, e.g., barbiturates, benzodiazepines, alcohol, corticosteroids, neuroactive steroids, and nonbenzodiazepines, precipitate similar withdrawal effects characterized by central nervous system hyper-excitability, resulting in symptoms such as increased seizure susceptibility and anxiety.[29]""

Taken from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_dependence

While my psychiatrist prescribes lower dose valium to enable me to come off it slowly, coming off 200mg utrogestan capsules would be like coming off a MASSIVE dose of valium and could be life threatening.

My GP and gynaecologist do not know the relationship between valium and progesterone and neither does the psychiatrist, I can't taper off the capsules, I wish I had never started HRT at all.
I just want off it, can anyone offer a safe solution bearing in mind I cannot take synthetic progesterone?

[CLKD]

I think that your best route would be to speak to a Pharmacist.  I can't see the connection with Utrogestan and other medications: prescribed for totally different reasons . 

Take your concerns to a qualified practitioner in a Chemists, they have private rooms if necessary.  The Pharmacist can make any phone calls to find out if there is likely to be a problem as you suggest.

[sheila99]

I'm out of my depth here but it seems you need a specialist in the physical effects of drug withdrawal to guide you. The only thing that seems logical is if you increase the valium to replace most of the oral utro then continue reducing valium. You'd need to know how much valium equates to 100mg utrogeston. Are there any drug specialists or support groups who could help? You can't be the only one with this dilemma. I wish you all the best in your journey and hope you can get the help you need.

[Dandelion]

I think that your best route would be to speak to a Pharmacist.  I can't see the connection with Utrogestan and other medications: prescribed for totally different reasons . 

Take your concerns to a qualified practitioner in a Chemists, they have private rooms if necessary.  The Pharmacist can make any phone calls to find out if there is likely to be a problem as you suggest.

Thanks CKLD for this suggestion, I am housebound and have made phone calls to pharmacists regarding other meds etc, just quick ones though. Shame I cant go out as our Boots does have a private room.

[Dandelion]

I'm out of my depth here but it seems you need a specialist in the physical effects of drug withdrawal to guide you. The only thing that seems logical is if you increase the valium to replace most of the oral utro then continue reducing valium. You'd need to know how much valium equates to 100mg utrogeston. Are there any drug specialists or support groups who could help? You can't be the only one with this dilemma. I wish you all the best in your journey and hope you can get the help you need.

Hi Sheila99
Yeah I do, the constants or GP don't know but I doubt I can expect them to.
Increasing the valium to replace the utro sounds a good idea, however as it is strictly monitored by my psych (I started it illicitly) there is no way. I puked up a dose once and he refused to replace that dose, so I know he wouldn't increase the valium, I wouldn't even know how much more valium to take anyway, as I don't know what the equivalent dose is for utrogestan like I do with Ativan, 1mg Ativan = 10mg valium.
I've been on a benzo forum and not got anywhere. Many of the ladies are from the states where cream is prescribed and there is not so much a "one-side-fits-all" approach to HRT like there is here. Much lower dose cream is prescribed in the states as it is topical, shame it is not licensed here.
There are a lot of women on the benzo forum who have had problems tapering off the cream. A fb friend I met there has not messaged me since she cut from 13mg progesterone cream to 11mg, she said the cut incapacitated her. I asked why she bothered cutting and she said she got tolerant to it in the same way benzo dependent people get tolerant.
Thanks for your help.

[CLKD]

One does not get addicted to hormones, it's what our bodies produce naturally!  The problem may begin when oestrogen levels drop off.  Without speaking to a Pharmacist who has spent hours learning his craft, you won't find out what is possible and what is also true.

[Dandelion]

One does not get addicted to hormones, it's what our bodies produce naturally!  The problem may begin when oestrogen levels drop off.  Without speaking to a Pharmacist who has spent hours learning his craft, you won't find out what is possible and what is also true.

Hi CKLD

Yes, we don't get addicted to our own hormones, nor do women who take progesterone, it's just those who have had benzodiazepine dependencies who develop dependencies on allopregnanolone, progesterone's metabolite. This is because this neuro-steriod attaches itself to the GABA(A) receptors in the same way benzodiazepines do - hope I have made sense.
Yeah I get you regarding the pharmacist. I didn't know why I became housebound, I always had trouble getting out, but masked it with drink/drugs, now no more, except for legitimate scripts from doctor.
I am newly diagnosed autistic, and that has helped me make a lot of sense of what I thought were mental issues.

[CLKD]

It made sense.

Little steps. 

[Kathleen]

Hello Dandelion.

I have an image of a Pharmacist going into a dead faint if you asked them for advice on such a complicated subject lol! However they may know who you can approach for help.

Another thought is to email your query to Dr Currie, again it is likely beyond  her area of expertise but as sheila99 says, there must be other women who have been in your position and she may be able to suggest contacts or even refer you.

Whatever you decide to do please keep us updated.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Dandelion]

It made sense.

Little steps.

Thanks, it would be a good idea if I could email a pharmacist, can't often get through to boots as they're busy. I wonder if another one would take an email? I could ring and try.

[CLKD]

Rattymaid - I had already asked my friend who is a qualified Pharmacist with years of experience ......... they have constant connections to GP Surgeries and Hospitals after all.  They aren't people who simply hand out bottles of medications they are highly skilled professionals.

Pharmacists are able to contact other specialists or colleagues for advice. 

[Dandelion]

Rattymaid - I had already asked my friend who is a qualified Pharmacist with years of experience ......... they have constant connections to GP Surgeries and Hospitals after all.  They aren't people who simply hand out bottles of medications they are highly skilled professionals.

Pharmacists are able to contact other specialists or colleagues for advice.

Hi CKLD
Who is Rattymaid.
Thanks

[CLKD]

  the name of a member responding in this thread 

[Dandelion]

the name of a member responding in this thread 

Silly me.

Phoning a pharmacist is a good idea. With me being autistic, and the pharmacists being busy I find it hard to articulate the words of such a complex query on the phone, I hope that I can email them.

[Uptick]

Hi Dandelion, hope you had a decent Christmas and I wish you a better 2021. This is the only article I could find about this subject, it's rather old (1995) though. They're conclusion is that micronised progesterone didn't make much difference on benzodiazepine's withdrawal severity and taper outcome.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02246214