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[CrispyChick]

So sick of this. Any advice great fully received.

On nothing I am sooo fatigued with excruciating ovulation time, nausea and dizziness.

On the mini pill cerazette. I get low and angry. Still dizzy avd off.

On the combined pill I get very nauseous. Some give me migraines, others low mood, depending on the prog. Still dizzy and off. Cavt find one to work.

Now 2 weeks into my first hrt. Femoston 1/10. The estrogen is meant to be a lot milder than the synthetic pills but here I am woozy as hell with a horrible dizzy feeling. Loss of appetite. Just feel hellish. Now cut in half which triggered a migraine. Day 2 on half dose avd still feel woozy and off. Not even touched the progesterone section yet. Mood is fine.

Am I just a lost cause. Do I need to live my life with these symptoms. I have nothing left to try. So fed up of it all.

Thanks for listening. I'm 44.

[sheila99]

Have you tried transdermal hrt?

[CrispyChick]

No. But I'm not sure how it will really make much difference if I cavt tolerate a tiny amount of estrogen in pill form. The problem isn't in my stomach.

Also a tried the contraceptive ring and it was awful...

Is there any combined transdermal actually available???

[dangermouse]

During perimenopause oestrogen levels can go really high, and then plummet low, which means any additional oestrogen is like poison when it peaks (especially around ovulation). I had the same with extreme nausea and migraines.

The only thing that can dampen down the high oestrogen is very high oestrogen as in the combined pill or very high transdermal. I think the idea is to trick the brain that there is enough oestrogen circulating so that it stops pumping out large amounts (along with adrenal hormones) when it registers the plummets and/or the low progesterone levels, which fall approx 10 years before oestrogen does.

Some also find progesterone alone can help for the latter issue but eventually oestrogen can go rogue!

I am near the other end as only had a couple of periods this year but I have hot flushes and these clearly signal volatility with oestrogen rising and falling, although it's not as bad as when was having frequent periods.

I've also found it's imperative to keep your organs of elimination clear, otherwise oestrogen recirculates and doesn't leave the body as it should. Using herbs to cleanse the liver, kidneys, gallbladder and even saunas and colonic irrigation can all help a lot.

[Kathleen]

Hello CrisoyChick

I am so sorry to hear that you are suffering.

Have you tried emailing Dr Currie as she may have helped other women in your position.

Dangermouse makes a good point about eliminating oestrogen that we no longer need.  I understand that  unwanted hormones etc bind to fibre in the gut and are excreted instead of being reabsorbed. Perhaps you could try increasing your fruit and veg intake by making a smoothie that you can sip throughout the day.  Not only will this provide lots of fibre but you can add nuts and seeds as well, a tasty sweetener and some liquid iron if necessary.  Perhaps research some recipes to give you some ideas.

Sending hugs and I hope this helps in some way.

Take care.

K.

[sheila99]

Evorel conti is a combined transdermal, there may be others, try the Treatments tab. Good idea to ask dr currie, or maybe ask for a referral to a menopause clinic but I would have thought it would be worth trying transdermal before you give up. I never got on with contraceptive pills but haven't had similar problems with hrt (have only used transdermal). if you want to be able to adjust the dose yourself oestrogel is good but then of course you need a separate progestin. I'm late peri now so pretty stable but I found gel good for altering the dose until I found the optimum. It doesn't help you now but it does get easier as you head towards meno.

[CrispyChick]

Thank you so much ladies. I really appreciate it. I feel so lost.

Danger ouse - do you mean you suffered with nausea avd migraine when trying to take estrogen in peri?

Today, on half dose estrogen from the fenoston 1/10, I am feeling low with headache avd now got bleeding (never ever ever had rouge bleeding). I can accept the headache and low mood are the drop in estrogen.... But still underneath is the underlying vile feeling and awfulness which also takes my appetite away. This is the feeling I had right at the beginning 3 years ago....

Do you think I am actually experiencing too much estrogen??? I do feel like I have been poisoned. It's a good description. I don't actually think I've ovulated this month - again, would this suggest too much estrogen? Last month au naturele my ovulation pain was horrific. I ended up at out of hours gp with suspected cyst. I assumed low estrogen caused that 🤔. But if I am high estrogen, I wonder why I feel bad on cerazette. I used to feel fine on it.

I had appointment with meno clinic in Sept. They wanted me to try contraceptive ring. I did. Felt awful then hrt and back to gp. I had email with Dr currie last year - again contraceptive pill or hrt suggested.

Truth be told, I'd love to be on the pill and ignore all this... But I just couldn't find one to work. The low dose ones made me feel awful and the higher does ones gave me migraines etc. The last one, millinette, after 3 months left me feeling a bit like I do now. I just can't work it out...

I have had qlaira mentioned a few times... But if I feel so bad on 1mg estradiol in the femoston 1/10, I can't see how qlaira would work as some days it's as high as 3mg.

I'm just a mess. The thought of being on nothing brings me rubbisness every day. The week before I started femoston I was dizzy avd off and the most fatigued ever.

I hate all this. Sounds like pill is best... But I've honestly tried them all 😔 maybe I should try the contraceptive patch. I said no to that when gp wanted me to try it as I thought the estrogen too high... Might give me migraines like some pills. But, if I understand what dangermouse is saying, it's that I might need high estrogen to stop my own fluctuations?

Thanks so much for trying to help xx

[Kathleen]

Hello again CrispyChick.

When you say you have tried the  contraceptive ring do you mean the Mirena Coil? If so, did you use a gel or patch as the Oestrogen part?

I see that you have been to a meno clinic was that an NHS one, if so have you considered Dr Louise Newson at Newson Health?

Perhaps the best thing is to write down your symptoms clearly and concisely and talk to your GP about a referring you to a migraine expert or an Endocrinologist. Someone, somewhere must be able to help you and although your situation sounds tricky I bet there are other women who have had similar experiences and have benefitted from seeing a specialist.

I am so sorry that I can't be of more help but I wish you well and send hugs.

Take care.

K.

[Alicess]

Dangermouse, how do you know if your estrogen levels are very high? To my knowledge migraine is trigged by a drop in estrogen. If you have average of low levels there could still be a sudden drop. Do you know of any research regarding migraine and very high estrogen levels?

Crispychick, I had the same symptoms you describe and in my case it was definitly low estrogen.

[CrispyChick]

Thank you for your kind words Kathleen. Yes, perhaps I need to look further afield for specialist help. Yes, I spoke with NHS meno during lockdown.

Alicess - you had the same symptoms? Do you mean in general or when taking estrogen part of HRT??? And you think low estrogen? I guess dangermouse is suggesting I may have low estrogen, but also swings of high estrogen as I'm only 44. I'm very confused.

My periods are very very light. I was assuming low estrogen, but as dangermouse describes 'poison', that is how I'm feeling on 1mg estradiol from the femoston 1/10. I've also got breakthrough bleeding that I've never ever had in my life... This is making it feel like too much unopposed estrogen.  .

I'm one day away from the prog tablets... So I think I'll stick with my half tablet into next week and see if that changes things.

I've been looking into zoley - maybe I'd be better trying that.

[befuddled]

Hi, just to say i think Sheila's suggestion of patches would be worth a try.  I had a problem with constant nausea with the first hrt i tried (novofem).  I stuck it out for a couple of weeks to see if it would improve, but then changed to patches - estradot (with utrogestan) and have had no nausea at all.  They come in different strengths, and i think i've read that some ladies cut them in half to lower the dose?  Maybe worth thinking about before you give up, you don't know 'til you try. 

[dangermouse]

I'm quite an extreme case as the nausea made me lose 2 stone in 2 months as it was gastric migraine and neurological. I would have to go to A&E regularly for a drip and they thought I had stomach ulcers and plied me with proton pump inhibitors for 6 months whilst I awaited an endoscopy. All anti nausea drugs made me worse and when o figured out I was in A&E each time I was on my period, the hormone link then became clear.

I saw a private endocrinologist who did blood tests and diagnosed high oestrogen causing gastric migraine, but yes it does also plummet low, it's the volatility and the gap between where your oestrogen level is and your progesterone level that causes the extreme symptoms.

I was on the pill when younger with no issues but I had started feeling bad in the pill break week so stopped it. Then I got progressively worse over the next few years. Once I knew was hormones I went back on Brevinor pill and the first week was hell as I was adding oestrogen and it was like being on a ship in a storm for a whole week! I knew I had it override my own oestrogen levels though so I stuck with it. One week later the ship docked and I emerged starving and relieved.

Over the course of the next 6 months the nausea started to break through again, even without pill breaks (which obviously add to the volatility and are unnecessary). I then tried some transdermal oestrogen which made me very unwell again and the switched to progesterone cream and lozenges which helped for a year or so but my own hormones became more volatile so that nothing really helped.

I never tried the 4 pumps of gel which many here found helped them so that is an option and just be ready to feel worse before it controls your cycle (if it can).

I did learn over that period though the importance of being able to excrete the oestrogen as high levels cause sluggish motility like when pregnant. Think it's to do with keeping as many nutrients in the gut for as long as possible to nurture the foetus.

[dangermouse]

Also forgot to say that I did try Qlaira but it just wasn't strong enough to override the cycle compared to the ethyl estradiol in the normal combine pill.

It felt similar to when I tried 1 pump of the gel, so dizzy and sicky!

[CrispyChick]

Oh my Dangermouse, you have been through it. Thsnks so much for replying to me. God help me, I feel like I'm very extreme too. Can't find anything to help. Feel dreadful on nothing.

So, dare I ask, where are you now??? Have things settled? Does this get better???

The strange thing I found was it was day 8 when I originally started the COC last nov that my original symptoms came flooding back. I had been on the POP for a year before, so obviously was introducing high estrogen, but it took a good 2 months to settle. Then I got migraines, so switched type and never settled again.

I'm currently in a cycle of nausea, vile feeling and no appetite on my small dose hrt solo estrogen. Just added prog today. So clearly the low dose is not going to work. I think I'd be better completely overriding. Maybe I just need to keep trying other pills. I'm thinking of the patch maybe.

Please tell me you got better? X

[CLKD]

The kidneys eliminate everything that the body doesn't use.  Which includes medications.  If the body is working correctly one doesn't need anything extra, if necessary, ask for an NHS appt. to a renal consultant, also see if your urine can be checked for signs of oestrogen.  Have a lookC in your area to see if there is a menopause clinic close enough, you may B able 2 self refer. 

A good idea to send an e-mail to Dr Currie.  Let us know how you get on?  It is so tiring this Trial and Error when 1 feels ruff.  Even thinking about seeking medical help was too much 4 me at times 

When I was 16 I had The Pill, can't remember what it was but after 2 weeks I was extremely sick  .  Try explaining that to Mother  .  The next Pill suited me so I took it for 11 years.

As a slight meander: Water Companies across the UK are checking sewage processing plants to see if C-19 is passing through people into the drainage systems, to see if there are 'hot spots'. I think the idea is to do more testing in those areas.  [sorry if you are eating lunch ;-)].