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[SueLW]

Has anyone chosen to take Utrogestan alongside the Mirena coil and if so, what were the experiences?

I'm really happy with the coil, it sorted out issues I had before, but I can't raise oestrogen levels with patch, gel or now the new spray, without it causing morning anxiety, low mood/brain fog and horrible swelling of feet and ankles.  Which seems contrary to how oestrogen should be.  My specialist want's my oestrogen higher. 

I'm wondering if I used 1 capsule of Utrogestan vaginally every other night, if that might help balance things to stop some of the side effects I am getting.  Has anyone done this?  I'd do anything to loose the fluid retention, my feet and legs hurt horribly with it.  And I never had low moods like these or anxiety before when I had periods, or when I just had the Mirena for BC.

[Wrensong]

SueLW, sorry I can't help with experience of combining 2 types of prog, but I think you posted on another thread recently that you are in the awful position of being hypothyroid with a conversion defect but cannot get T3 prescribed?  The low mood & fluid retention you describe make me wonder whether increased TBG from the oestrogen is tying up too much of your thyroid replacement.  Have you had a TFT recently?  I get horrible fluid retention with oestrogen when my thyroid meds need increasing.  I realise without T3 you are in a difficult position though.  Are you under an Endo for the meno-thyroid combination, given your thyroid's not straightforward?

[SueLW]

increased TBG from the oestrogen is tying up too much of your thyroid replacement.  Have you had a TFT recently?  I get horrible fluid retention with oestrogen when my thyroid meds need increasing.  I realise without T3 you are in a difficult position though.  Are you under an Endo for the meno-thyroid combination, given your thyroid's not straightforward?

Well remembered!

I use transdermal oestrogen.  There are no indications for that increasing the binding globulin so it shouldn't' make a difference, and I can't raise the Levo anyway because it makes me feel worse.

You are right, the low T3 could be the source of the fluid retention and low mood.  But it is odd that although I have a permanent level of fluid retention all the time (gone up a whole shoe size in recent years), my mood is OK until I try to increase the oestrogen when my feet and ankles swell to balloons and my mood can plummet, especially in the mornings (when I take my Levo!).

GP clueless and has said "it's not your thyroid".  I'm not under an NHS endo. Saw one once (he was really young) and he said I was "fine" so I've not bothered again.  I do see one privately who is much better, but Covid means I've missed an appointment and don't yet have another booked with him.  I see a menopause specialist for the HRT.

Something about the increasing of the dose of oestrogen plays havoc with my legs and feet.  This is why I wondered about progesterone.  I'm going to have to bite the bullet and take T3 soon.  I'm scared of it though, I've tried twice before and got it wrong and when you get it wrong, boy does it feel terrible.

[Wrensong]

I know the received wisdom is transdermal E doesn't increase TBG but every time I increase my oestrogen (transdermal - patch) I start to feel hypo after a while, get tested & bloods confirm I need to increase my thyroid meds.  I've just had to do that very thing after an increase in E earlier this year.  A couple of other hypo members have also posted that they've found the same even with transdermal E. 

GP clueless and has said "it's not your thyroid"

.  Eee sorry - yes I know, sadly they often are.

Yes - exactly the same - Oestrogen out of balance causes aching swollen calves with me.

Agreed - too much T3 is a horrible experience.  I have to take less than my Endo wants me to as I can't tolerate a 2nd or 3rd daily dose.  I certainly find T3 vital with the hypo tendency to fluid retention - I find it helpfully diuretic, relieving that awful sluggishness in the process.  Can you maybe just try adding in 5mcg 1st thing with Endo approval & can he/she not over see the HRT as well?  Mine does.

[sheila99]

I have no advice, just wanted to say I'm sorry you're having such a hard time 
It's so hard to find someone who knows enough about both issues who could help. It seems I have Hashi's so I probably have all this to come 

[SueLW]

I know the received wisdom is transdermal E doesn't increase TBG but every time I increase my oestrogen (transdermal - patch) I start to feel hypo after a while, get tested & bloods confirm I need to increase my thyroid meds.  I've just had to do that very thing after an increase in E earlier this year.  A couple of other hypo members have also posted that they've found the same even with transdermal E. 

GP clueless and has said "it's not your thyroid"

.  Eee sorry - yes I know, sadly they often are.

Yes - exactly the same - Oestrogen out of balance causes aching swollen calves with me.

Agreed - too much T3 is a horrible experience.  I have to take less than my Endo wants me to as I can't tolerate a 2nd or 3rd daily dose.  I certainly find T3 vital with the hypo tendency to fluid retention - I find it helpfully diuretic, relieving that awful sluggishness in the process.  Can you maybe just try adding in 5mcg 1st thing with Endo approval & can he/she not over see the HRT as well?  Mine does.

I should have said I do my own thyroid tests privately regularly.  I have tried to increase the Levo even by tiny amounts but it makes me feel worse and although my T4 might go up, my T3 won't.  It often goes down a bit. 

I don't want my endo to take over HRT. He's lovely and he's very aware of the need for HRT and asked me about it immediately, but I think he just wanted to know I was taking some.  I see Dr Newson, she knows her HRT stuff, but won't really consider the thyroid at the same time, which is a bit disappointing.  They need a proper thyroid expert in that clinic, then they would be perfect. 

I would certainly start T3 again with a quarter tablet.  Mine are self-purchased so a quarter would be 6.25.  Last time I tried I dropped my Levo by 25mcg first on patient advice.  But that was wrong.  My T4 and T3 dropped! And my atrial fibrillation kicked into persistent from random lone bouts. 

I searched the medical files for stuff about transdermal and thyroid binding globulin but only found papers that said it made no difference.  As my thyroid T4 result changes a bit almost every time, I can't work out a pattern alongside HRT changes.  I'd have to start a new process now for that.

I did manage to be on my feet most of yesterday and busy making jams.  I enjoyed myself.  But couldn't start until the morning misery had passed.  No morning misery today and it happens to be patch change day, so levels will be lower probably!

[SueLW]

I have no advice, just wanted to say I'm sorry you're having such a hard time 
It's so hard to find someone who knows enough about both issues who could help. It seems I have Hashi's so I probably have all this to come 

Thanks.  It seems in medicine, each chooses a specialism and sticks to it like glue.  They don't look outside of their own specialism to see how things interconnect.  Even the hormone specialists just specialise in a few hormones and ignore the rest.

We have to turn ourselves into our own doctors, somehow find the medications we need and buy them, and then experiment on ourselves.  It's not fair.

[Wrensong]

Oh Sheila, sorry to hear that  , but there's only a small proportion of hypo patients who need T3 - around 15%.  Every chance you will be among the 85% that does really well on Thyroxine alone.  Have you been started on it or do you just have antibodies at present?

SueLW - no same here, increasing T4 doesn't increase my T3.  My T3 is always below bottom ref range even when T4 is towards top of range with a low TSH.  That's the conversion defect for you.  It's an absolute pain, isn't it?  I get mine tested privately too - NHS won't usually do T3, as you know.

I've been a Newson patient too & found them very sympathetic, but was already under a very good Endocrinologist.  He & I now manage both thyroid & HRT together - I think he finds it less complicated that way.

I could do with a bit more T3 but a quarter NHS prescription Liothyronine is 5mcg - what brand comes in 25mcg then?  Can I ask do you import them yourself?  I liked Cytomel as it came in low doses but it's way too expensive these days.

Oh Sue the fibrillation - how horrible for you & what a complication.  I am sorry.   

The T4-T3 combination that works best for me coincidentally works out to be in ratio of roughly 15:1 - so, close to physiological.  But of course with short half life the one dose of T3 doesn't see me through 24hrs.  It's better than none though & about as good as it gets for me.

I searched the medical files for stuff about transdermal and thyroid binding globulin but only found papers that said it made no difference.

I know, but you know yourself that theory with hypothyroidism frustratingly doesn't always equate to reality.  Was just reporting my own experience in case it might help you.  Thought if you could maybe add in a bit of T3 that might greatly help with the horrible fluid retention.   But I completely understand your apprehension given the heart issue.

As an afterthought, if you are under a Cardiologist, have you discussed the fluid retention there?

[SueLW]

Oh Sheila, sorry to hear that  , but there's only a small proportion of hypo patients who need T3 - around 15%.  Every chance you will be among the 85% that does really well on Thyroxine alone.  Have you been started on it or do you just have antibodies at present?

SueLW - no same here, increasing T4 doesn't increase my T3.  My T3 is always below bottom ref range even when T4 is towards top of range with a low TSH.  That's the conversion defect for you.  It's an absolute pain, isn't it?  I get mine tested privately too - NHS won't usually do T3, as you know.

I've been a Newson patient too & found them very sympathetic, but was already under a very good Endocrinologist.  He & I now manage both thyroid & HRT together - I think he finds it less complicated that way.

I could do with a bit more T3 but a quarter Liothyronine is 5mcg - what brand comes in 25mcg then?  Can I ask do you import them?  I liked Cytomel as it came in low doses but it's way too expensive these days.

Oh Sue the fibrillation - how horrible for you & what a complication.  I am sorry.   

The T4-T3 combination that works best for me coincidentally works out to be in ratio of roughly 15:1 - so, close to physiological.  But of course with short half life the one dose of T3 doesn't see me through 24hrs.  It's better than none though & about as good as it gets for me.

I searched the medical files for stuff about transdermal and thyroid binding globulin but only found papers that said it made no difference.

I know, but you know yourself that theory with hypothyroidism frustratingly doesn't always equate to reality.  was just reporting my own experience in case it might help you.  Thought if you could maybe add in a bit if T3 that might greatly help with the horrible fluid retention.   But I completely understand your apprehension given the heart issue.

My Dad had AF, and his brother and sister. I think it was inevitable. And apart from the fact that they have me on a beta blocker (not great for a hypo person) I don't bother about it much now.  It's not my biggest problem.  I was on T3 12.5 per day with 100 Levo when it started up and wouldn't stop.  The cardiologist freaked me out so I stopped the T3.  I should have held firm.  My T3 was lower at that point than before I started adding T3 to the dose so I know it wasn't that.  My T3 isn't below range, just stuck between 3.4 and 4.2 and that's obviously not enough for me.  Even when I bit the bullet and took 150 a day for 7 weeks, my FT4 rocketed over range to 28 (top being 22) and my FT3 went down into the 3's.  It's been the same on all sorts of doses of Levo.  The T4 moves, but not necessarily as expected.  My TSH does weird things.  My FT3 stays more or less where it is.  I have no energy and no stamina at all.  I used to be on the go all the time.  Now I can hardly move.  I sleep like a log but wake up shattered. Somehow I still run a business!  But Mum needs me to do physical things for her now and I can't.  I'm 57.  I went from great to this in my 50th year.  Seven wasted years.  It's hard to take.

I buy Tiromel 25mcg from Turkey.  It's over a year since I bought it, but the pharmacy still seems to be good, it's still in stock.  Happy to share details if you want them, although wary to do that on an open forum.

As well as the fluid retention I have stinging toes and the toes and balls of my feet feel both numb and over sensitive at the same time and burn in bed.  I think this is connected too. 

The obvious bonus of my currently raised oestrogen is the hissing in my ears has become much quieter.  I think the demands of oestrogen just drain out my already barely there T3.

Perhaps I'll go for it this weekend and restart T3.  Ugh!

Thank you so much.  I don't often meet another person trying to work with HRT and Levo and T3. 

[Wrensong]

Sue, bless you - it's a pleasure.  I'll come back & reread your last post & answer later, but will just say now, please PM me any time if it might help to compare notes - it can be a challenging road to walk alone at this time of our lives.
Wx

[Wrensong]

Hi again SueLW,

You probably won't have seen it but your last post crossed with my adding this line to the end of my previous:-

"As an afterthought, if you are under a Cardiologist, have you discussed the fluid retention there?" 

I take it from your last post that you're not under Cardiology any more.  That worries me given you're obliged to control your metabolism with meds we both know have an impact on the way the heart functions.

I had relatively minor heart rhythm issues with comprehensive cardiology investigations for them in peri, but the fibrillation is beyond my experience so you'll know way more about it than me.  I just had in mind that if the heart is intermittently beating inefficiently is it possible that's implicated in the fluid retention?

"I have no energy and no stamina at all.  I used to be on the go all the time.  Now I can hardly move.  I sleep like a log but wake up shattered. Somehow I still run a business!  But Mum needs me to do physical things for her now and I can't."

  Can I ask do you have any muscle wasting?

Along those lines - is there is any chance your Thyroxine is actually too high?  I know you feel exhausted & we usually associate that with too little thyroid hormone but I'm sure you know it's possible to get burnt out over time on too much thyroid replacement, as the body is continually running too fast.  Classic for heart rhythm probs & anxiety in that circumstance too, as you'll know. 

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect you to sleep like a log if your thyroid levels were too high.  What's your feeling?

I was also on beta blockers for a few months in peri at a time no-one was sure whether my thyroid levels were too high & I was worried they were.  They blunted the sensation of each beat but didn't correct the rhythm & I stopped them after a while with my then Endo's agreement.  It was only after going back on T3 & starting systemic HRT within a few weeks of each other that the ectopics stopped.  As I'd had the irregular rhythm for several years by then & found it very unnerving, I was never more relieved in my life than when it reverted to normal.

"I was on T3 12.5 per day with 100 Levo when it started up and wouldn't stop. The cardiologist freaked me out so I stopped the T3."

  Well don't blame yourself for that, I'd have done the same - combined, that's a helluva lot of thyroid hormone & we're always rightly warned that T3 is very powerful & that too much thyroid hormone of any kind long term is bad for the heart.

"My T3 was lower at that point than before I started adding T3 to the dose so I know it wasn't that. . . . Even when I bit the bullet and took 150 a day for 7 weeks, my FT4 rocketed over range to 28 (top being 22) and my FT3 went down into the 3's" 

I wonder whether it's possible your body was suppressing production of T3 in a protective feedback mechanism with so much thyroid hormone coming in?

"My T3 isn't below range, just stuck between 3.4 and 4.2"

  By the same token, has your Endo ever suggested reducing Thyroxine to see whether your T3 goes up?  I know that sounds counter-intuitive.

"As well as the fluid retention I have stinging toes and the toes and balls of my feet feel both numb and over sensitive at the same time and burn in bed.  I think this is connected too."

Yes maybe, if the fluid retention is putting nerves under pressure, but have you had your B12 tested recently?  We can get burning feet/legs with low B12 as well as exhaustion & tinnitus & hypothyroidism predisposes us to developing pernicious anaemia.  Btw I also have longstanding tinnitus & intermittent burning in arms & legs.

"Perhaps I'll go for it this weekend and restart T3."

  I wouldn't want to do this without either Endocrinology or Cardiology approval.  If you get on well with your Endo & you've missed an appt due to COVID could you maybe try to get an appt sooner rather than later & get his/her opinion on next step?  Mine is back at work (private hospital) - I saw him 3 weeks ago. 

Your situation is so complex Sue, with the less than straightforward thyroid condition, menopause & the AF on top.  Please be very careful.  I worry when thyroid patients feel (understandably) obliged to take their treatment into their own hands.  It's great that we can exchange experience on here, as it sometimes helps us consider new possibilities, but my feeling is altering powerful meds is best done under supervision of the appropriate specialism.

I do hope you can decide what to do.  I imagine you're under a lot of stress running a business with parents to look after & feeling so unwell.  I really feel you need expert advice to get you on the right track.  Please do let us know how you get on.
Wx

[SueLW]

Hi again SueLW,

Your situation is so complex Sue, with the less than straightforward thyroid condition, menopause & the AF on top.  Please be very careful.  I worry when thyroid patients feel (understandably) obliged to take their treatment into their own hands.  It's great that we can exchange experience on here, as it sometimes helps us consider new possibilities, but my feeling is altering powerful meds is best done under supervision of the appropriate specialism.

I do hope you can decide what to do.  I imagine you're under a lot of stress running a business with parents to look after & feeling so unwell.  I really feel you need expert advice to get you on the right track.  Please do let us know how you get on.
Wx

Please don't worry! 

I'm used to making decisions about what to take for this.  Yes, I'm nominally under a cardiologist for the AF but that means I saw him last year in the summer.  He failed to do what he said and book me for a cardio version where they shock the heart back into rhythm. I chased.  Finally got that done in January after Dad died and I had sorted all that out.  It held for a few weeks.  Not sure when it went back to AF as I can't feel it most of the time.  I then had a review with him about the cardio version during lockdown so it was on the phone.  My GP ran an ECG for me and we sent it to the cardiologist's secretary with blood results ready for the appointment.  He didn't have either of them with him.  He didn't know if the cardio version had been successful or not or anything.  I asked to change beta blockers to a brand that other AF sufferers have less trouble with but he said "they are all the same, try calcium channel blockers" and that was that.  They are not all the same. And I don't want to chop and change.  I still have to call the GP and persuade him to let me try the different brand first.  Otherwise we will never know.

There is no way I've ever been over medicated.  I'm testing regularly, always under identical conditions and I keep a diary of BP and heart rate (although that's a bit loopy with AF).  My TSH is alway too high.  I'm not over medicated and I most certainly wasn't when the AF started up in persistent mode because I tested as soon as that happened.  AF won't kill me.  It's just annoying and uncomfortable if it's noticeable.  Beta blockers just control the rate.  They don't stop it.  Mine's fast so I need it slowed.  I don't have any heart defects or issues.  My heart is fine.  AF is an electrical pulse issue.  My heart is strong, I'm not in heart failure of any kind, which would cause fluid retention.  If I drop my HRT back a bit the retention stops.  If I raise it to feel better in my brain, it comes back.  It's most definitely hormonal.  I was very prone to fluid retention at different points in my cycle back when I had them.

I could see or speak to the private endo but it's not easy to book with him at the moment, I've been trying.  And I know T3 is on the list for the next phase.  We tried raising my Levo a bit but I can't stand that so that's not the answer.  You say it's a lot of hormone, but it's not for my size.  I'm nearly 6ft tall and heavy now.  I'm just about at the bottom of the recommendation for dose if you go by body mass.  I can certainly stand to go higher.

I've been collecting my test data and keeping it in a spreadsheet for years now so I can see that my FT4 level and TSH don't necessarily do what I expect them to do when I take the Levo.  I can raise it and I can lower it.  I've had the best T3 conversion on low Levo and then when I've dropped it down again at a different point I've had poor conversion.  But at the point when it was best I felt awful.

I test a full iron panel about 3 times a year and do active B12.  My active B12 level is good.  I struggle with ferritin though and am constantly trying to improve it with iron rich foods and some iron supplements.  It's not that either, it was one of the first things I checked because I have a friend with pernicious anaemia.  I don't have any muscle wasting.

So please don't worry about me.  I won't be doing something rash.  I'm very cautious.  The reason I've not restarted T3 already is that I'm cautious, but the heart needs T3 as much as every organ. 

[Wrensong]

Phew  .

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation SueLW.  I'm so glad you're so clued up.  I was trying not to be alarmist but we can't make assumptions about depth of knowledge of any poster we don't know.  It's easy to get into trouble with inappropriate questions or tone or inadvertently set someone off on the wrong path.  Find it hard to get the balance right!

I'm so sorry to know about your Dad though.  What a lot of stress you must have been under this year.

How frustrating that your Cardiologist seems to have been so clueless about the beta blocker brands.  Have you also come up against that with the mistaken belief that we can mix & match brands of Thyroxine without affecting thyroid levels?

Like yours my TSH is usually higher than my Endo would like, but at this age less is more when it comes to thyroid meds!  I get that you will need quite a high dose now I know your stature.  Like you I've always been sure to get my TFTs done frequently.  Usually every 3 months if there's any chance of it being dodgy, which there often is with me.  The NHS's standard once a year would never have done!

Thanks for the reassurance SueLW & I totally agree with your final comment about the systemic importance of T3.

I will shut up now & hope you get some response to your original question about progesterone combinations.
Wx

[SueLW]

Phew  .

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation Sue.  I'm so glad you're so clued up.  I was trying not to be alarmist but we can't make assumptions about depth of knowledge of any poster we don't know.  It's easy to get into trouble with inappropriate questions or tone or inadvertently set someone off on the wrong path.  Find it hard to get the balance right!

I'm so sorry to know about your Dad though.  What a lot of stress you must have been under this year.

How frustrating that your Cardiologist seems to have been so clueless about the beta blocker brands.  Have you also come up against that with the mistaken belief that we can mix & match brands of Thyroxine without affecting thyroid levels?

Like yours my TSH is usually higher than my Endo would like, but at this age less is more when it comes to thyroid meds!  I get that you will need quite a high dose now I know your stature.  I'm at the other end of the scale, too skinny & not very tall.  Like you I've always been sure to get my TFTs done frequently.  Usually every 3 months if there's any chance of it being dodgy, which there often is with me.  The NHS's standard once a year would never have done!

Thanks for the reassurance Sue & I totally agree with your final comment about the systemic importance of T3.

I will shut up now & hope you get some response to your original question about progesterone combinations.
Wx

No need to apologise.  I have enjoyed our chat about this.  As I said earlier, I don't often come across someone with HRT and the need for some T3.  I am pretty clued up on thyroid though.  I've been studying it for years.  Pity I've not been able to fix it.  I actually tried T3 on it's own for a while a couple of years ago.  I got to quite high doses, about 1.5 tablets a day and my BP and heart rate never moved.  It still didn't work though. I think I need some T4 in the mix and less T3 than that.  I had probably gone through my sweet spot, if there is one.  Which is why I know just what you mean about too much being the same as too little.

Beta blockers brands aren't all the same.  A lot of people with AF say they feel drugged and exhausted on this one, which happens to be the cheapest.  I want to try one that a lot of people feel much better on.  I find it too exhausting to contemplate ringing the GP half the time.  I could do without the battle.  I must get around to it.

Before I got an appointment with Louise Newson (pre her clinic days) for HRT I had been with a London clinic that had cost a fortune and not helped.  I was looking for another doctor and found one that was herself on T3 as well as being a menopause specialist.  So I went to see her.  It didn't work out because she thought I'd be in need of more attention than she could give me because she was about to have some length of time off.  But she looked at my TSH which was over 7 at that point and said "I wouldn't be able to get out of bed with a TSH like that".  I've just never been able to find a GP locally in the same position!

Yes, doctors and pharmacists try to tell you any brand will do.  I tried Teva Levo once in the early days.  No medic ever believed me, but I never had nosebleeds in my life.  I took Teva for a week and I had the most awful nose bleed.  Poured for an hour and terrified me.  I was washing in the bathroom, starkers, no way of getting dressed. My husband handing me kitchen roll and giving me reassurance.  I had several more that week.  Then I remembered the tablets.  I took some of the original brand and felt much better and less nosebleeds.  After that I needed to be careful for a while because it was damaged.  But I don't have nosebleeds now again.  It was the Teva.  I raised a yellow card and won't accept them from the pharmacy.

[Wrensong]

SueLW, sorry, have only just seen your last post - not looked at the forum for days. 

Yes, the need for T3 certainly seems to complicate the lives of those who are in that unfortunate position, especially at menopause.  I'm not surprised you're clued up on thyroid - when Thyroxine alone doesn't do it for us we feel so bad we have no alternative but to learn all we can & advocate for ourselves.  Quite a few women have posted on here in that position & from memory, they've all reported having a struggle both to get appropriate treatment prescribed & stabilise on it in combination with much-needed HRT.

Interesting to hear you tried all T3 & your heart rate & BP were unaffected by high doses.  I think you're right, we need a combination of T3 & T4, but sounds as though we've both found that achieving a tolerable ratio can be difficult.  It was suggested at the start of peri I do T3 alone, but we never got that far with the terrible fluctuations of that time playing havoc with symptoms.

Thanks for the interesting insight on beta blockers, but I'm sorry you've met with resistance to trying a brand that has a reputation for being kinder on the body.  Might be well worth pushing for it when you feel up to it, but I hear you:-

I find it too exhausting to contemplate ringing the GP half the time.  I could do without the battle.

The Menopause Specialist on T3 herself should have been worth her weight in gold.  How very unfortunate her circumstances at the time meant she wasn't right for you.

My TSH was above 12 a couple of years ago when we were trying to find the right dose of oestrogen & I was still functioning but felt hypo, so that you could carry on with a TSH of 7 I can believe.  But in younger years with my TSH almost suppressed I still had some of the classic hypo symptoms making life difficult, though that was before I could get anyone to prescribe T3.  At this age, on T3 & T4 combined, I feel best with TSH around 2-3. 

Your reaction to TEVA sounds alarming.  I shopped around to find a pharmacy who were happy to source the Thyroxine brand I wanted in the 3 strengths I need to make up my alternating dose & who also felt they could get hold of T3 with a long enough expiry date, stressing to them I needed someone who wouldn't find either requirement a nuisance as previous pharmacies had. 

If you wouldn't mind giving me details in a PM of the pharmacy that gets your Tiromel for you I'd feel more secure with that option for the future should the NHS withdraw my Liothyronine permanently.

Have you decided what to do about the progesterone or do you think when you can get an appt, you'll talk to your Endo about trying T3 again?

I've also enjoyed chatting to you on this thread SueLW & since you originated it, I hope we'll be forgiven for straying from the title topic!  I often feel bad when a thread gets derailed with thyroid talk, but so many women come here on thyroid replacement or apparently in need of it & the complexities that leads to at menopause can be easily underestimated.  So it feels remiss not to flag up a suspicion thyroid may be involved when someone is suffering & comes along with a meno query that on the face of it seems unrelated.  I often suggest continuing by PM, partly as it gets embarrassing posting the same stuff over again & I worry it's understandably boring the pants off other regular posters who don't need to keep reading me banging on about about thyroid!
Wx