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[CrispyChick]

Any ladies out there who have suffered with this???

In peri menopause our progesterone can tank first, resulting in unbalancing between our estrogen and progesterone. It doesn't necessarily mean high estrogen. In fact, you could have low estrogen, but have really low prog.

So this is what's been happening to me during perimenopause and its left me highly symptomatic.

At my worst i experience nausea, dizziness, fatigue, loss of appetite, painful ears, and generally feel very very unwell.

I'm currently working to better metabolise my estrogen.

If anyone is/has gone through this, it'd be great to start a conversation. Whilst I love this forum - it is very much focused on the need for additional estrogen. I might have that need one day, but right now I've got plenty estrogen, but practically no progesterone.

[Mary G]

Crispy, I didn't have exactly the same problem as you but it was very similar.

My silent migraines started when I first became menopausal and I'm pretty certain they were caused by very low levels of progesterone.   As you say, progesterone tanks first and it would seem that the progesterone I produced naturally during my reproductive years (together with decent levels of stable oestrogen) was preventing the migraines.   Once the progesterone went west, the oestrogen was spiking all over the place (particularly before a period) and causing the silent migraines.   Progesterone acts as a kind of stabiliser.

I'm convinced that it's low progesterone in perimenopause that causes insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety and depression in so many women.   

Once the oestrogen dominance comes to an end and your levels start to drop, new problems can emerge but you are not at that stage yet.

I think oestrogen dominance is misunderstood.   It's really a case of tanking progesterone which in turn leads to spiking and very unstable oestrogen.

[MIS71MUM]

I’ve been in peri for 12 years now and this is something I’ve thought about before.

I definitely think peri may be more about the ratio of oestrogen to progesterone, rather than an oestrogen deficit.

I’ve been led to believe that recent studies do prove that progesterone can be beneficial to someone like me who doesn’t need to take it as I have no uterus.

I’m not sure I like that blood tests for menopause focus on oestrogen levels only, surely we also need to find out what progesterone levels are doing too!

Just my thoughts but not sure peri can be dealt with by oestrogen alone.

[VanillaLover]

Hi Crispychick, interested in this.

Sometimes I do wonder if my symptoms are due to too much oestrogen rather than too little.

Can I ask how you came to know that this was the case for you? Was it trial and error or another way?

[Marchlove]

Mary G, I think you’re so right.
The body can’t understand the tanking progesterone and so consequently compensates by spiking estrogen in the hope that this will increase progesterone, as in the past this has always been the way the body as functioned through the cycle, so the body thinks this will solve the imbalance.

In the end as menopause truly comes along it’s no longer able to do this and estrogen tanks as well.

I think it’s a matter of not supplementing estrogen in peri but giving your body small but adequate amounts of progesterone in the luteal phase to compensate, preferably transdermal to build up a reserve in the tissues to carry you through the follicular phase.

X

[Fizwhizz]

I’m in this situation currently. I wasn’t absorbing progesterone from a cream and so my oestrogen was dominant though not at high levels as I’m not absorbing that particularly well either.

My symptoms are more mental than physical though. I was feeling tearful, irritable, moody, fuzzy brained. Now I’m taking more progesterone by tablet I just feel low and meh. I have a poor appetite but I was putting that down to feeling so blue.

I do agree though that lots of focus is seems to be given to levels of oestrogen but in my opinion it’s how progesterone and oestrogen work in together.

[CrispyChick]

Great to hear these stories ladies.

Yes. Absolutely. I'm not saying it's all about progesterone either - it's about balance! When the balance goes - life goes to pot.

Vanillalover (great name) in answer to your question - I found out through years of suffering and lots of trials and lots of errors.

I had a bit of grounding in that the herb agnus castus worked amazingly well for me for 3 months (that can increase prog to help pms) - but I then got severe daily migraines. So stopped. On stopping all my problems came back, 10 fold.

For the next few years both my GP and NHS meno clinic had me try every pill under the sun. They all made me feel terrible. I'm not really sure why because I used to take the pill happily.

Anyway, next NHS trial was HRT. Femoston tablets (think that's the right name). I took the estrogen only part for 2 weeks - O. M. G.... I was literally poisoned.

That was the wake up. NHS couldnt help me any further.

So I resorted to a private clinic. After bloods etc they confirmed my Progesterone was rock bottom.

I've not actually had any luck solving this!!! Which I guess is why I started this thread. Be great to chat with ladies in a similar situation - and share ideas.

I've tried natural progesterone - cream, troche and even utrogestan. They've all given me more problems than they solved.

Im currently trying a herbal tablet. That should, in theory, help me metabolise my estrogen much better. Too early to say...

I've also just done a Dutch test.

So, that's my story. I've had to spend a lot of money at this. I'm not rich, but I've had absolutely no quality of life, so had no alternative. I'm not finding an easy solution. But most annoying is the NHS simply led me down the estrogen path and had no other insight.

I've been on this forum a long time now - and I think it's time to start a, real conversation about estrogen dominance and how we can rectify it. There is a lot of info and chat in the States about it.

I appreciate not all ladies become symptomatic at this stage - but some of us certainly do!!! And there's not a lot of help out there.

So - any success stories??? 

[Smurph]

I think I’m in the same boat as you! I’m 46, early peri I suspect as my periods have become closer together, shocking PMT, awful anxiety, brain fog making it hard to work etc etc. Also had night sweats from time to time and aches and pains.

Anyway, I was given Everol 50 and Utrogestan cyclically. The Everol made me feel so so odd and after a while I decided to start cutting them in half. I just felt like it was too much for me. While this was going on I started looking into what actually happens in Peri and, as others have said, it’s actually your progesterone that plummets. I read a brilliant book by Laura Briden called The Hormone Repair Manual which I highly recommend. She’s a huge advocate for progesterone only treatment. She also has one called Estrogens Storm Season which I’m yet to read.

Long story short, I am much better now on a low dose of estrogen and 200mg Utrogestan last 2 weeks of my cycle. My PMT has almost vanished, still have the odd brain fog episode but overall am starting to feel like myself again. Coming up to 6 months since starting HRT. Perimenopause is such a tricky time, much trickier than I’d ever anticipated!! Wishing you all the best  x

[VanillaLover]

Smurph, Just been reading the book you mentioned, Estrogens Storm Season.

I do feel like sometimes I have too much oestrogen as I get hot flushes, nausea, dizzy, wired, sore breasts etc. I know these could be caused by low or high oestrogen …but…the nausea and sore boobs especially reminds me of when I was pregnant so that’s making me think high. Anyway….

But I am also suffering with aching joints, dryness and so on - surely these must be attributed to low oestrogen?

I am guessing it can swing either way one cycle to the next?

I haven’t read the whole book yet so maybe it goes into this. I currently take 50mg oestrogen and utrogestan same as you. The utrogestan makes zero difference to anything, mood, periods, whatever.

My sleep is good on the oestrogen but lately the hot flushes and aching have ramped up a lot. I am 46 but my periods are irregular. Only just started actually missing one in last six months though.