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[GypsyRoseLee]

Well, quite...MaryG. Plenty of women on cannot even access NHS Menopause Clinics because they can't get a referral, or they simply don't have the means to travel to one. Doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss them on here though, surely?

[CLKD]

forum

Public medium (such as a newspaper column) or place used for debates in which anyone can participate.

In Roman times it meant a public place at the center of a market or town where open discussions on judicial, political, and other issues were held.

[Wrensong]

Thank you GRL, Westie, Sparkle, CLKD, Mary G & Stellajane.  Seems the majority view is that this thread has been interesting & worthwhile, which is reassuring.

[CLKD]

It's a good idea to share ;-) "It's Good To Talk" ? BT many years ago.

[GypsyRoseLee]

I feel exactly the same Wrensong. This website is such a valuable treasure trove of information and knowledge about the menopause. And we have members from all over the globe, many for whom private medicine is their only available option anyway.

[CLKD]

I wonder how many browse from the Middle East, India, China etc.  .  Some places womens' health is not valued as highly as men. 

[GypsyRoseLee]

CLKD, both times I visited Prof Studd's consulting rooms there were women in the waiting room who had flown in from the far East and the USA! And you could hear the receptionist talking on the phone in Spanish.

[CLKD]

Why block bold though - that's shouting 

No one needs to seek private treatment but many of us choose to or have to because we are unable to source what is appropriate for us personally.  I had private treatment for breast surgery because I had paid insurance to do so via my Company, of course this was taxed also as a perk.  It took me out of the NHS which left space for patients, as well as getting me back to work quicker.  I remained in the private sector for 3 years until both my Consultants retired  .  I don't think they left because it was anything that I had said 

How else is one to proceed when one feels ill, tired, frustrated, alone - because the GP Practice can-not/will-not give what patients require?  Even if this is due to Government restraints on time etc., until GPs take a stand and tell the Government a firm "No, 10 mins is not enough so I will see patients at my rate" this idiotic situation will continue.  GPs I know don't stick to the 10 min rule anyway ........... as an aside not many Trainees are opting to become GPs so there will be even more of a shortage of practitioners 

What many people are unaware of is that Consultants who also work privately, have to be part-time in the NHS. They cannot work full-time.  If they weren't offering private clinics on their days off, they would be away tending their Jacob sheep, running, orienteering and yep: I worked with Consultants that did all 3, as they wanted a complete break on their time off from providing medical assistance. 

[Hurdity]

Very well said GRL, I think this is becoming ridiculous now.

A forum is supposed to be about shared experiences and exchanged views and it is not for one member to decide whether or not private health care is allowed to be discussed.  We are supposed to opening up debate, not closing it down because we don't agree with it.

I'm pleased that my posts on the Professor Studd regime helped you GRL.  That's the whole point of this forum isn't it?  His regime worked well for me for a number of years until I finally hit the buffers on the dreaded Utrogestan.

If women like myself are unable to find solutions via the NHS then why not find a solution in the private sector?  I appreciate that not everyone can afford to do this but not everyone can afford holidays either so do we close down the holiday thread on here?  Where do you draw the line?

Women join this forum desperate for solutions - let's not forget, westie's thread was entitled 'At my wits end with all this - and it is only right that all experiences, both NHS and private, are made available.  We are not children that need to be protected from ourselves.

For the minority who may be interested, I'm starting a new thread on compounded hormones (aka bespoke hormones) in the Alternatives section subject to the approval of the regulars on there!

What is becoming ridiculous Mary G?

Although you never mention me by name,  I know of course you are referring to me with this comment: "A forum is supposed to be about shared experiences and exchanged views and it is not for one member to decide whether or not private health care is allowed to be discussed.  We are supposed to opening up debate, not closing it down because we don't agree with it."

I strongly object to your casting me in such a false and negative light which is so very far from what has occurred and you know it. Please stop attributing views and actions to me that are untrue. Anyone reading this thread in detail can see that this is not what occurred. No-one has decided anything about the discussion of private health care ie whether it should or should not be discussed. Read my posts again and please stop misrepresenting my views which you also did earlier on in the thread here:

I made it quite clear in my post further up that my regime works for me but will not necessarily work for everyone.   No HRT regime works for everyone like Utrogestan or a long cycle for example.

I don't think westie should feel uncomfortable about seeking help privately.   If someone is opposed to private health care on ideological grounds that is fine, but does that mean nobody can ever discuss the private health sector?   

I agree with dangermouse, if this is a free and open forum, all types of HRT should be freely debated.   If indeed there is a problem with members discussing private menopause clinics and their HRT regimes, then there should be a directive from one moderators setting out forum protocol ie only NHS clinics and HRT regime may be discussed.   I don't think this is a decision for individual members.

Nobody should be made to feel uncomfortable if they are happy on a standard HRT regime, I wish I could have a standard regime but that has not been possible.  Equally, I feel this should be an open forum and all individual experiences should have equal value be they NHS or private.

Westie was not made to feel uncomfortable about seeking help privately - as you will see if you go back to my original post.  I feel saddened that such negative comments have led to such a polarisation of views and seem to have encouraged discord with people I regard as friends on this forum.

This started out as a civilised discussion and could have continued as such. If you read my posts you will see it is the promotion of private bespoke BHRT regimes that I disagree(d) with and not private health care per se (in this context anyway) and make no apology for doing so, even though anyone is free to discuss them.

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Hurdity - IMO that's taking the issue too far.  A bit like being in the playground?  No names nor pack drill ........... either that or paranoia has crept in 

[Hurdity]

Surely any conversation tends to ebb and flow and go off at tangents? If we were all in a pub, chatting away, surely no one would rap their knuckles on the table and announce 'No, no we were talking about ABC so we cannot start discussing XYZ now'. That's not how conversation or even debate works - and I speak as someone who was the star of her debate team at school <polishes medal>

I am fortunate that we can afford private healthcare if necessary, and God knows it was going private that finally rescued me from the confusion & ignorance displayed by the well meaning, but uninformed, NHS. I'm sorry, but I wasn't going to risk my mental health any further just because another suffering woman elsewhere couldn't afford private medicine. But, in recompense I was very happy to pass on all the valuable advice and knowledge that Dr Annie Evans and Prof John Studd gave to me in their consultations. As I recall it was thanks to reading MaryG's posts that I was even made aware of the work of Prof Studd, for which I was incredibly grateful.

To avail yourself of private medicine and treatment, to only then keep its secrets to yourself could be deemed elitist? But to avail yourself of private treatment and then pass on that knowledge to as many others as possible is surely altruistic.

Hiya GypsyRosLee - you know I have always supported you and tried to help you on this forum and of course I think and have often said on here - that it is wonderful that you (and others) are sharing your (private and individualised) treatments with others so that they can benefit - who could possibly think otherwise? Likewise others who have done the same. I have never ever suggested otherwise and I don't think anyone else has either. Your last sentence says it all and everyone is grateful to you and others who share in this way!

I'm not sure if you have read the whole thread but in case not, no-one has said at any point that women should not seek private treatment nor that it should not be discussed. However what I was talking about, and you and most women are talking about are individualised regimes using existing regulated products (I've already said this on the thread but my views seem to have been misunderstood or lost on the way).

There is a world of difference between sharing these so that we can take the ideas to our GPs (along with research showing their efficacy), or experiment under medical supervision,  vs the promotion of private but non-regulated regimes and products (BHRT) that we cannot get hold of and which are not regulated and tested. That is and always has been my objection. Of course members can and do discuss the treatments - no-one has suggested otherwise, but my view is that we shouldn't be promoting them.

In addition my frustration which I expressed and was shared by others too earlier in the thread - was that westie (and of course other women) should not feel the need to seek private treatment solely due to the inadequacies of their local GP practice.

If you read the first few pages of this thread, everything was being discussed amicably and in a friendly manner until emotive language started to creep in, which resulted in polarising the arguments!

Anyway I wanted to respond because you know I agree with you and along with other members, have walked with you for some years in your quest for better health and I have always understood where you're coming from.

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

What's happening here - I read the above on the other page  - now I might be menopausal but I ain't stupid - yet 

[Hurdity]

CLKD I swapped my posts round but unfortunately you managed to post while I removed one, added the other and then re-added the first so you're not going gaga yet!!!

Bold is not shouting - it is emphasis so that the important parts or the distinction between them stands out. I wanted to clarify exactly what I was referring to because there issues have been conflated ie NHS vs private, and private BHRT (compounded) vs private using regulated products and I felt my views had been misrepresented hence the attempted clarification.

Hurdity x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Hurdity

I do agree with you that women should be very wary of unregulated potions and lotions for the menopause. God knows I wasted enough time and ?? trying many alternative practitioners who were neither use nor ornament, frankly.

But, as I understand it, the BHRT discussed is being prescribed by NHS trained specialists, at respected clinics (for which, yes unfortunately we do so often need to pay). I certainly wouldn't advocate randomly buying BHRT off eBay! But the knowledge that progesterone is available in smaller 50mg doses is remarkable. You and I have both cited how ridiculous that Utrogestan dosage seem to only be in a one size fits all regime in only 100mg or 200mg. I really, really hope that we all see the day when progesterone can be individualized to the extent that gel or patches can be.

Like you, I don't want women to ever think they can only access gold standard HRT from private consultants, because that would be a tragedy. But if you're at your 'wits end' as Westie is, then the slog of trying to source decent HRT through another GP practice, or waiting months for a NHS Menopause Clinic referral - it can just seem insurmountable, it really can.

So, if you can afford it why not smooth your way as much as possible, as fast as possible? Then, as tends to happen, once you have a private consultant inside your GP will be much more inclined to write you a NHS script for the HRT you need. It also frees up your 'slot' in the endless queue for NHS menopause resources. And maybe, just maybe, receiving an instruction letter from a private specialist might encourage GPs to educate themselves more about the latest developments in HRT (yeah, well we can all hope...).

But, we don't need to waste energy bickering over semantics on here. We all have a valuable contribution to make, and you more than most Hurdity! We need to pick our battles and use our energy where it's most necessary - spreading the word as far and wide as possible, and amassing as much information and knowledge as humanely possible.

Here endeth the lesson...x

[Hurdity]

Nice one GypsyRoseLee 

By the way I do agree with you re the private consultations if absoutely necessary and if the usual channels have proved fruitless although I would still push for improvement at local level at the same time otherwise the staus quo will continue. My first post on this thread was expressing frustration on westie's behalf that she felt the need to seek private treatment because of the appalling and outdated treatment from her GP - especially if this does provide a way into prescription on NHS. After all as you said I did this myself ( and made no secret of this) re testosterone - but this was in early 2015 before the NICE Guidelines so there was no NHS option at all - at least there is now - if only off-licence, and it is using regulated products (albeit desoigned for men but at least it is the same stuff!). Even so I always advocate caution  here too.

However I wasn't aware of any NHS trained specialists in compounded BHRT in respected clinics (whatever they are?) - I understood that that was the whole point - there is no standardisation and no regulation in terms of dosage or efficacy - even in very famous very expensive clinics attended by celebrities  .

Yes a 50 mg progesterone dose delivered at a known dosage would be fantastic - we are always suggesting this - but at the moment this is only available as a bespoke product without any knowledge as to uterus protection, or standardisation of dosing. ift here were published trials in that particular fomrulation of that particular product and some sort of CE mark or whatever - quality assurance - then that would be different. I stand corrected if there is - but if there was then the menopause societies would endorse it?

I still think there is quite a lot of flexibility with the current prog we have available even though only 100 or 200 mg - ie vaginal or oral or combination and differences in cycle length or internittent dosing - all of which could be provided on NHS and could make many women's lives so much easier...

Anyway - thanks for your post. I don't agree with absolutely everything you've said but hey - I've had enough?! Also currently fogged with prog...

Hurdity x