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[Eagle87]

Hi I really need some advice. I'm not in menopause but I have severe postnatal depression I tried 11 different antidepressants without any success I then found proff studd webpage and read about estrogen and postnatal depression

I went to see him 21st nov and he diagnosed me with reproductive depression and prescribed 4 measures of estrogel daily tostran every 2 days 1 measure and utrogestan start 1st feb 7 days... it's been 9 weeks now and I know u need to give hrt 3 months but I need hope..

My biggest symptoms is insomnia.. I do have better days when I feel the treatment is working but then the really awful days comes back... I hardly slept since Saturday and I feel so low that I dont want to live but I would never end my life cause of my children

I started to bleed on Saturday maybe that's connected with how I feel

I have a review with mr watson 19th feb but feels ages ago

My question is is it normal to still feel this low on week 9? Does everyone feel better on hrt? I'm scared that what if I'll get worse... I just need advice and reassurance to carry on and need to know theres light on the end of the tunnel thanks

[Turkish delight]

Oh dear, you poor thing, your not alone, we are all here to help.

I understand completely how insomnia can cause such havoc, I suffered badly too when I became peri-menopausal. This was one of the main reasons I started hrt(estrogel/utrogestan)

I Did notice an improvement with sleep straight away if I'm honest, that's not to say that you should have. Others here had different experiences that took longer to see the benefits. Something you pick up very quickly while on here is that everyone is so different, and as you know 3 months is the party line on how to judge any particular hrt regime.

I'm no expert, just wanted to let you know someone is listening and welcome you into our safe place.

 

See what others say, hang in there.

TD

[Ladybt28]

As you are not menopausal but using the treatment for reproductive depression, your reactions are going to be different to a lot of women here Eagle87 and no not all of us feel better on hrt but then we are coming from a different position than you.

What you are going through is terrible, I know I had postnatal depression and it's horrendous.  All I can say is that seeing Prof Studd was a good move he is an authority and breath of fresh air on this kind of thing.
Unfortunately these kinds of medications are not a quick fix but there is definitely hope...hang on to that, I promise there is definitely hope!  You are with the right man to help you for sure.  After many years of feeling depressed anxious, hopeless, lethargic and with symptoms AD never touched, when I got into menopause medication that worked for me, life was so much better.  I probably had hormonal depression since a teenager and didn't know that's what it was.  At least you are being treated by someone who full understands those problems.

Because you own hormones are kicking in because you are so young you will be getting spikes and troughs, that's why you are having some good days but it's those good days you must hang on to because it proves something is working.  With homones, it is all about getting a balance and letting it even out.  It will be tougher for you I am not saying it won't because of your own hormones and it may take longer than in a menopausal women.  You just have to keep going, keep the faith and plough on.  AD's are obviously not an alternative so, you must keep going and keep posting on here  when the going gets tough xx

There is no judgement, here you can say what you want and someone will be around to support you.  We may not actually be able to suggest anything because it's a waiting game and you probably have a way to go but there are always kind words, positive words and just someone to rant at who will respond but understand EXACTLY how you are feeling.
Chin up honey, onwards and upwards xxx

[sheila99]

My main symptoms were anxiety and insomnia, though meno related not post natal. Insomnia was the last to go and took 3 months. If you're seeing some improvement it should give you hope, mine was also up and down before it settled. You have my sympathy, insomnia is the absolute pits and you're guaranteed to feel awful. I can't imagine having to look after a baby at the same time.

[Penelope]

Hi honey I hear you have you ever looked up postpartum thyroiditis.
I was told I had post natal depression and have now found out it was postpartum thyroiditis.
A lot of the same symptoms overlap each other.xx🌹

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/postpartum-thyroiditis

[Eagle87]

As you are not menopausal but using the treatment for reproductive depression, your reactions are going to be different to a lot of women here Eagle87 and no not all of us feel better on hrt but then we are coming from a different position than you.

What you are going through is terrible, I know I had postnatal depression and it's horrendous.  All I can say is that seeing Prof Studd was a good move he is an authority and breath of fresh air on this kind of thing.
Unfortunately these kinds of medications are not a quick fix but there is definitely hope...hang on to that, I promise there is definitely hope!  You are with the right man to help you for sure.  After many years of feeling depressed anxious, hopeless, lethargic and with symptoms AD never touched, when I got into menopause medication that worked for me, life was so much better.  I probably had hormonal depression since a teenager and didn't know that's what it was.  At least you are being treated by someone who full understands those problems.

Because you own hormones are kicking in because you are so young you will be getting spikes and troughs, that's why you are having some good days but it's those good days you must hang on to because it proves something is working.  With homones, it is all about getting a balance and letting it even out.  It will be tougher for you I am not saying it won't because of your own hormones and it may take longer than in a menopausal women.  You just have to keep going, keep the faith and plough on.  AD's are obviously not an alternative so, you must keep going and keep posting on here  when the going gets tough xx

There is no judgement, here you can say what you want and someone will be around to support you.  We may not actually be able to suggest anything because it's a waiting game and you probably have a way to go but there are always kind words, positive words and just someone to rant at who will respond but understand EXACTLY how you are feeling.
Chin up honey, onwards and upwards xxx

Thank you for your reply it's so damn hard and the days and nights are going so slow.. I have a 3 year old boy too and I havent been well since he was born.

If they need to change my prescription on the review  does it take 3 more months to feel better? Does the body continue to produce hormones during hrt? Studd said I should be on hrt to menopause is that safe? Are the blood test accurate? Sorry for so many questions.... ..

[Ladybt28]

If they need to change your prescription on review it, it depends on what it is they are changing.  If they are changing doses (upping them) of the same hrt medication then it can suddenly become enough of a dose to make you feel consistently better.
Don't worry about the questions..questions are good!  I'll do my best, my lovely:)
If they are changing the hrt medication (eg the delivery system to patches or pills etc) then it can be quite an upheaval Eagle87 and you may feel like you are back at square one but please don't be afraid.  I know that is easier said than done believe me but for me I had to view it like this...I couldn't have felt any worse, I was suicidal and debilitated and so I thought "what was my alternative"?  I couldn't feel any worse, I could only feel the same so I could carry on trying different hrt's until I got one that made me feel better!

Yes..your body does keep producing homones on hrt and especially in your case because you are being treated for reproductive depression not like the majority of women on here who are peri/menopausal which means their hormones are fluctuating because they are diminishing as their bodies are not producing them.  Your body is imbalanced for some reason.  It may be that there is some underlying reason why you are not producing enough but it is likely to be more imbalance than failing ovaries like us oldies!   This means that you will get spikes and troughs as I explained.  Reference blood tests, if they are done very very regularly then they will give a bit of a picture in your case but by and large they only give a snapshot at a particular time on a particular day which may well change hour by hour.  Unless you are seeing Studd every week then the blood tests may not be of much use in my opinion except if they continually show consistent imbalance.

In terms of safety and hrt...well there is much discrepancy amongst the medical community but the last study about hrt and cancer discredited a previous study which doctors like to rely on to put people off it.  The last study showed that women who ended up with some form of cancer possibly already had a pre-disposition to getting it, either genetically, or because they smokes or were over-weight or drank too much etc.  It was other factors which contributed not the hrt alone.

Eagle87...you are having a terrible time and it is going on for a long time...I would go back to how I feel about hrt and "being ill" whether from menopause or hormonal depression or any hormonal issues....when you are at rock bottom and desperate you need to think clearly about what are the alternatives?  Professor Studd is a world authority on hormonal depression so personally I think you should stick with him and try whatever he suggests for however long it takes.  I wish I had know about him year's ago but it never came up but that is beside the point.  What is in my past is past.  When I did get the opportunity "to feel well" in my head and my body, it took me a total of 3 years to find the right medications but I didn't get much advice and then 7 months for them to work properly.  It was a long haul but I had to keep going, I had not other alternative but to give up and that wasn't an option.

Talk about how you feel on this forum...just write it down each day or night...the nights were the worst for me...regardless of how desperate you feel.  There is usually someone around to listen even if we can't fix it for you.  I have everything crossed that Professor Studd can fix it....it just might take some time.  Much love and 

[Eagle87]

If they need to change your prescription on review it, it depends on what it is they are changing.  If they are changing doses (upping them) of the same hrt medication then it can suddenly become enough of a dose to make you feel consistently better.
Don't worry about the questions..questions are good!  I'll do my best, my lovely:)
If they are changing the hrt medication (eg the delivery system to patches or pills etc) then it can be quite an upheaval Eagle87 and you may feel like you are back at square one but please don't be afraid.  I know that is easier said than done believe me but for me I had to view it like this...I couldn't have felt any worse, I was suicidal and debilitated and so I thought "what was my alternative"?  I couldn't feel any worse, I could only feel the same so I could carry on trying different hrt's until I got one that made me feel better!

Yes..your body does keep producing homones on hrt and especially in your case because you are being treated for reproductive depression not like the majority of women on here who are peri/menopausal which means their hormones are fluctuating because they are diminishing as their bodies are not producing them.  Your body is imbalanced for some reason.  It may be that there is some underlying reason why you are not producing enough but it is likely to be more imbalance than failing ovaries like us oldies!   This means that you will get spikes and troughs as I explained.  Reference blood tests, if they are done very very regularly then they will give a bit of a picture in your case but by and large they only give a snapshot at a particular time on a particular day which may well change hour by hour.  Unless you are seeing Studd every week then the blood tests may not be of much use in my opinion except if they continually show consistent imbalance.

In terms of safety and hrt...well there is much discrepancy amongst the medical community but the last study about hrt and cancer discredited a previous study which doctors like to rely on to put people off it.  The last study showed that women who ended up with some form of cancer possibly already had a pre-disposition to getting it, either genetically, or because they smokes or were over-weight or drank too much etc.  It was other factors which contributed not the hrt alone.

Eagle87...you are having a terrible time and it is going on for a long time...I would go back to how I feel about hrt and "being ill" whether from menopause or hormonal depression or any hormonal issues....when you are at rock bottom and desperate you need to think clearly about what are the alternatives?  Professor Studd is a world authority on hormonal depression so personally I think you should stick with him and try whatever he suggests for however long it takes.  I wish I had know about him year's ago but it never came up but that is beside the point.  What is in my past is past.  When I did get the opportunity "to feel well" in my head and my body, it took me a total of 3 years to find the right medications but I didn't get much advice and then 7 months for them to work properly.  It was a long haul but I had to keep going, I had not other alternative but to give up and that wasn't an option.

Talk about how you feel on this forum...just write it down each day or night...the nights were the worst for me...regardless of how desperate you feel.  There is usually someone around to listen even if we can't fix it for you.  I have everything crossed that Professor Studd can fix it....it just might take some time.  Much love and 

Thank you you seem so kind os there any chance I can talk to you on email or face book messenger because i dont get notified here when u reply so have to keep logging in to check

I'm due to start utrogestan 1st feb I read that it can help sleep is that right unfortunately it's only for 7 days I'm gonna take it..

I have taken estrogel since nov without progesterone do u think that's bad?

The thing I dont like about studd is aftercare he doesn't reply to my messages etc

[Ladybt28]

So Eagle, it is possible to send private messages on the forum...you will see something which says "my messages" on the blue br at the top but you must have made 10 posts before you can do that.  I am happy to talk to you by email but I am not allowed...well none of us are allowed to put email addresses in the posts which show here.  When you have made 10 posts or replied to some 10 times then message me and we can talk about it.

Regarding the utrogestan, is that the way Prof Studd has told you to use it?  What is called a long cycle is not unusual and especially so in your case because you should still be having your own periods as you are so young and this treatment is not for menopause but hormonal depression.

There are other things which you can do to help sleep and not the over the counter drugs which you can get.  I found they gave me a hung over feeling and you are not supposed to take them long term anyway.  In menopause insomnia is common and so is anxiety, so menopausal women are always looking to get proper sleep    some of us end up living on 3/4 hours a night for ages.  Anyway, I tried a lot of stuff and found 2 that worked.  You could try them if you like because they are perfectly natural.  One is called Dormesan Sleep by A.Vogal which are valerian drops you put in water before bed.  You can get them over the internet or any good healthfood shop.  The other you get on the internet which is melatonin.  It comes as tablets, or drops, or gummies.  I use the tablets.  They come in 1mg/2mg/3mg/5mg and 10mg.  I would start on the smaller dose tablets as you could always take 2 or 3 or them to build up if you needed rather than got straight to 5 or 10.
Melatonin is the chemical that our bodies use to make us go to sleep and wake up.  It is the chemical our eyes use that reacts to light so when it gets dark we are supposed to be sleepy but because of all the artificial light in the world that doesn't happen!
Anyway extra melatonin raises the normal levels in the body and fools it into going to sleep!

Shame it there seems to be no support in aftercare for Studd's clinic but I know it is very very busy because of his reputation.  Do they have nurses at the clinic, maybe you could email them instead of Studd directly.  I don't know because I have never been but I was going to go in 2016 but got an appointment with someone closer to where I live.

Sort out you 10 posts and replies equal posts by the way and message me if you want but otherwise keep posting because the other ladies can see and also jump in a support you. x

[squeaker99]

I personally felt rubbish on the HRT I was given - and I was given it due to chronic insomnia - that was my only real
problem at the time (although my periods were sporadic). It actually made my insomnia worse and I felt totally manic on it, was told to come off . Maybe it was because I was just bunged the first/cheapest HRT in the book my GP was leafing  through, maybe as another GP told me my hormones were too high and that was causing the insomnia so it was just ramping everything up. I don't know and I don't really think anyone knows as it is such a hit and miss process.

The good news is the Insomnia did go away after a few weeks. At the time it is a terrible things and leaves you mentally in a bad place but it does shift back. I am sure it was hormone related as  2 years on I still get those wired/mind racing nights - usually about day 26 if I have a period but even when I don't get a bleed.

Easy to say but try not to 'fight' the insomnia - go with it, get up if you're not tired. I ended up having a short course of sleeping tabs which did re-start my sleep cycle again - you have my deepest sympathies though as I never realised Insomnia was ' part' of Peri and it sucks.

[Eagle87]

So Eagle, it is possible to send private messages on the forum...you will see something which says "my messages" on the blue br at the top but you must have made 10 posts before you can do that.  I am happy to talk to you by email but I am not allowed...well none of us are allowed to put email addresses in the posts which show here.  When you have made 10 posts or replied to some 10 times then message me and we can talk about it.

Regarding the utrogestan, is that the way Prof Studd has told you to use it?  What is called a long cycle is not unusual and especially so in your case because you should still be having your own periods as you are so young and this treatment is not for menopause but hormonal depression.

There are other things which you can do to help sleep and not the over the counter drugs which you can get.  I found they gave me a hung over feeling and you are not supposed to take them long term anyway.  In menopause insomnia is common and so is anxiety, so menopausal women are always looking to get proper sleep    some of us end up living on 3/4 hours a night for ages.  Anyway, I tried a lot of stuff and found 2 that worked.  You could try them if you like because they are perfectly natural.  One is called Dormesan Sleep by A.Vogal which are valerian drops you put in water before bed.  You can get them over the internet or any good healthfood shop.  The other you get on the internet which is melatonin.  It comes as tablets, or drops, or gummies.  I use the tablets.  They come in 1mg/2mg/3mg/5mg and 10mg.  I would start on the smaller dose tablets as you could always take 2 or 3 or them to build up if you needed rather than got straight to 5 or 10.
Melatonin is the chemical that our bodies use to make us go to sleep and wake up.  It is the chemical our eyes use that reacts to light so when it gets dark we are supposed to be sleepy but because of all the artificial light in the world that doesn't happen!
Anyway extra melatonin raises the normal levels in the body and fools it into going to sleep!

Shame it there seems to be no support in aftercare for Studd's clinic but I know it is very very busy because of his reputation.  Do they have nurses at the clinic, maybe you could email them instead of Studd directly.  I don't know because I have never been but I was going to go in 2016 but got an appointment with someone closer to where I live.

Sort out you 10 posts and replies equal posts by the way and message me if you want but otherwise keep posting because the other ladies can see and also jump in a support you. x

Ok i understsnd.  Yes he told me utrogestan 7 days... does it help sleep?

I really dont understand what's going on when I started hrt i was really tearful the first 2 weeks then i started to improve as in i will start to have the odd good day followed by bad days.. as the weeks went by the good days will be 2 or 3 followed by 1 or 2 bad days.. this was around 6-8 weeks.. now I have had 11 bad days and nights in a row without a good one.. if anything I feel worse every day.. I feel as before i started hrt..

I need to be careful what I take with sleeping aids as I exclusively breastfeed my 3 month old baby.. I also sleep he doesn't take a bottle so formula is not an option... I dont wanna stop bfing..

I first got postnatal depression 3 years ago when I had my first baby that's when I tried all antidepressants but none worked eventually I felt better after 18 months... but used to get relapse every month when I had pms so would have 2 bad weeks every month

Then I fell pregnant again when he was 2 and that's when I started to feel well again until baby was born.. 2 weeks postpartum the pnd started again

I'm starting to regret starting hrt the way I'm feeling now and it seems so complex and hard to get it right.   Whenever I call studd office they just say have to wait 3 months.. its been 10 weeks surely I shouldn't feel suicidal.. I'm only living to look after the boys I'm feeling so low i dont want to live

[Ladybt28]

Hi Eagle...yes Utrogestan can have a sedative effect, so it may help your sleep.  The things I have suggested regarding sleep are purely natural and have no pharmaceutical drugs.  The Valarian drops are perfectly safe when breastfeeding, you can look it up. I am not sure about Melatonin.

HRT medications are not a quick fix for menopause or for hormonal depression.  It takes quite a long while for the hormones to balance.  It is recommended that it takes a full 3 months in meno women and I am sure that is the same possibly longer for hormonal depression.  Sometimes we can feel worse before we get better.  I don't know about hormonal depression but I would suggest it might take longer because the imbalance is greater but I'm no expert on that, it would just make sense to me.  To be honest balancing hormonal depression is going to be complex.  Believe me I started with hormonal problems when I started my periods which was at 14 and the depression stuff amongst others kicked in then.  I didn't find any answers until I was in my 50's and that was only by accident so I know what it is like to live with that horrible feeling you feel at the moment.  You have had good days which you were not having before so something is working some of the time.  You need to get some help from the Studd Clinic or reassurance about the fluctuations you are experiencing now.  Sounds to me like your own progesterone which is the hormone that usually causes us the most trouble is kicking in as part of your own cycle especially as you said you had PMS in your own cycle normally and it is that hormone that usually makes us feel bad.

When are you due back at the Studd clinic?  I would contact them again and explain exactly how you feel on the phone and don't give up until someone talks to your properly or provides some reassurance.  I would press on and not get too disheartened.  You need to work out exactly what pattern this is taking.  You may find that after a couple more bad days the subside and then you get good ones back.  The next time you get your cycle you may find the bad days are shorter but until yo have had good few cycles it is going to be very hard for you or the Studd clinic to judge. Maybe keep a diary?

It is going to be hard with a 3 month old baby as you are pretty much tied to the house for a while.  My babies were both premature so I couldn't breastfeed (that's another long story but I think also created by dodgy hormones!) anyway....we can talk about anything you want as it will concentrate the mind and maybe you wont feel so bad?

[Eagle87]

Hi Eagle...yes Utrogestan can have a sedative effect, so it may help your sleep.  The things I have suggested regarding sleep are purely natural and have no pharmaceutical drugs.  The Valarian drops are perfectly safe when breastfeeding, you can look it up. I am not sure about Melatonin.

HRT medications are not a quick fix for menopause or for hormonal depression.  It takes quite a long while for the hormones to balance.  It is recommended that it takes a full 3 months in meno women and I am sure that is the same possibly longer for hormonal depression.  Sometimes we can feel worse before we get better.  I don't know about hormonal depression but I would suggest it might take longer because the imbalance is greater but I'm no expert on that, it would just make sense to me.  To be honest balancing hormonal depression is going to be complex.  Believe me I started with hormonal problems when I started my periods which was at 14 and the depression stuff amongst others kicked in then.  I didn't find any answers until I was in my 50's and that was only by accident so I know what it is like to live with that horrible feeling you feel at the moment.  You have had good days which you were not having before so something is working some of the time.  You need to get some help from the Studd Clinic or reassurance about the fluctuations you are experiencing now.  Sounds to me like your own progesterone which is the hormone that usually causes us the most trouble is kicking in as part of your own cycle especially as you said you had PMS in your own cycle normally and it is that hormone that usually makes us feel bad.

When are you due back at the Studd clinic?  I would contact them again and explain exactly how you feel on the phone and don't give up until someone talks to your properly or provides some reassurance.  I would press on and not get too disheartened.  You need to work out exactly what pattern this is taking.  You may find that after a couple more bad days the subside and then you get good ones back.  The next time you get your cycle you may find the bad days are shorter but until yo have had good few cycles it is going to be very hard for you or the Studd clinic to judge. Maybe keep a diary?

It is going to be hard with a 3 month old baby as you are pretty much tied to the house for a while.  My babies were both premature so I couldn't breastfeed (that's another long story but I think also created by dodgy hormones!) anyway....we can talk about anything you want as it will concentrate the mind and maybe you wont feel so bad?

Hi ok i Called the clinic she said it's hard to say anything until I start progestrone... she said keep a diary and I can up estrogel so use 5 pumps but I'm scared it seems so much?

I dont think my own cycle has started as I'm breastfeeding so that suppresses ovulation.. how did u treat your postnatal depression?

[Ladybt28]

unfortunately I did not get any treatment other than AD's for my postnatal depression which didn't work.  My eldest son is 30 years old and my youngest 22.  Years ago, you got AD's and some counselling if you were lucky and left to get on with it! 
I suffered with depression from when my periods started right the way through until I got the right hrt treatment....it has been a long and difficult journey.  All they wanted to do was pump me full of pills and send me to counsellors.  To be honest although it sounds extremely dramatic, and how I managed to stay alive in that state for all those years I don't know but I did.  I am just about getting a life now.  I said it was a very long story but it means I know only too well how you are feeling which is always helpful because it is beyond difficult to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it.

Do what she suggests and up the gel, half a pump at a time I would say.  Don't up it dramatically otherwise if there is an adverse reaction it is difficult to stop it rolling on.  My experience says slow and steady increase.  Increase a bit wait a few day, increase again and see how it goes.  I said it was a long haul but it is the only way.
Sorry I forgot that breastfeeding suppresses ovulation... but I believe it is not stopping the total production of hormones altogether, there will still be some there.  Up the gel and don't be scared...it does seem a lot but that is what they are suggesting and they wouldn't be suggesting it if wasn't ok.  There are some ladies here who have been prescribed very high doses in special circumstances.  You're circumstances are special and do as she says keep a diary of how you feel each day and any changes, nothing long just a couple of lines....much love x