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[Pennyfarthing]

I'm definitely not pc enough, and really think the world has gone mad. So, is the whiteboard actually white? or still black? and it's not going to be long before someone has an issue with whiteboard, so then it'll just be a board??

yes it's white. 

[jaypo]

But a blackboard WAS black,omg I'm confused
Jill it wasn't you being blonde that people were referring to,it was just you 
Oh Stella isn't it crazy,I've yet to hear a black person complain that black items are racist,if they did?Id stop immediately,I've shoes that are black,what should I call them in the shop?oh I'll have a pair in.......the opposite of white please 

[ElkWarning]

I'm finding this incredibly frustrating and am in a minority of one so it feels quite isolating.

Firstly, anti-racists don't have a problem with blackboard, whiteboard, black coffee, white coffee, anything else that's descriptive.  It's just descriptive.  That said, I went into Starbucks on Friday, asked for a white tea and got something really odd.  Apparently, there's some actual tea called 'white tea' that isn't builders tea.  I've got no idea what it is, but it wasn't what I wanted.  Under these circumstances, it would have been better for me to ask for tea with cow's milk.  Point being, sometimes the descriptors fall down because what one person's describing isn't what another person's hearing as being described.

Secondly, these problems that supposedly we (anti racists) have are largely invented by people who want to have a go at the 'PC Brigade'.  They just don't really exist and are, instead, set up as some kind of 'straw man' - i.e. for arguments sake so that you can pull them apart, burn them down, destroy them really easily.  Once you do that, you can expose how 'silly' ALL the anti racist arguments are ...

Thirdly, I've actually now run this past some of my friends who are black with the question 'Do you think this sign should be changed and, if so, why?'  Basically, they said that the sign itself isn't a problem, but it doesn't exist in isolation.  The words can be taken out of context to mean something else.  They can be used as  justification for something much more damaging.  The example one person gave me was the confederate flag in America.  By itself it's just a flag, but in the wrong hands it can be weaponised and become a symbol of something far more sinister - like the American far right are doing now, killing people, in the name of that thing that was 'just a flag'.

^^ Now that seems a million miles away, doesn't it, but I actually have a dog in this fight.  My family are Jewish.  Over the years we've been subjected to graffiti on our cars, stuff shoved through our letter boxes and random verbal attacks in the street - walking to synagogue with the men wearing 'skull caps' kinda makes you stand out.  We have, if you like, an 'ancestral trauma' relating to the Holocaust.  It makes us twitchy.  When someone tries to wipe out your entire 'race' from Europe and obliterate your history (repeatedly), you tend to be a little bit on your guard.  You end up knowing how small things that people say and do can lead to mass murder 15 years down the line.  Now, I'm not saying this is what's happening here, but I _am_ saying it's easier to get triggered, especially when you're in a minority of one, and when all we're actually asking for is some sensitivity, some understanding of where we might be coming from, and less 'baiting' so we don't have to constantly justify why we're scared, in reality, really very scared.

[jillydoll]

No, that's right Stellajane,  the same goes for Ginger hair colour. They get it just as much as blondes!
Don't think we matter much! 😡

[jaypo]

I'm blonde and my daughter is a red head,so yes,heard it all,there are so many bigoted people out there,my daughter has a fab t shirt that says,why say racist,homophobic or sexist things when you can say nothing at all.
We have two married gay male friends and I've heard firsthand the things they have to contend with,some people are just a disgrace to humankind and probably will never change......sadly

[CLKD]

ElkWarning - start another thread as this is something I would like to learn more about?

Many years ago:  did I say already? I worked with a mix of cultures.  I went into a room one afternoon and the patient asked if the Doctor that she was about to be seen by was black.  I had worked there for many years and I actually couldn't remember.  So I went to check and when the Consultant heard the question he walked the patient off the premises.  I have once; met a totally black person; he was a fabulous looking Somalian  .  Everyone other person of colour has been various shades of coffee, latte, dark .......

It does make me look when I meet someone I a) don't know personally and b) is different.  Whether they are coloured, in a wheel chair, hobbling with two sticks ........... 'cos I'm curious.  In the same way as I notice Michael Portillo in his brightly coloured jeans and blazers.

I always have black tea two sugars.  The times DH gets asked whether he wants milk with his Americano    .......... I always have the tea-bag separate from the hot water as I like to dunk to the right colour.

[dangermouse]

I also have the blonde thing plus the woman thing. The latter is more concerning though when there's is so much misogyny which is a hateful type of stereotyping. The same goes for racism, its often borne through fear (often an unconscious threat from stronger physique) rather than an assumption that you're thick or easy.

The rational pc stuff is there to protect but as you've all said, stupid versions are spread (often by the media) to create gossip and more news.

Diversity keeps life interesting - who wants to just hang out with clones of ourselves?! Our race, sex or hair colour should not affect us being able to have diverse minds, as long as we challenge our own views every day and embrace the changes it may bring.

In terms of being offended, you can only be offended if you respect the person offending you. Then you have the discussion and (usually) find out the intent was ok and you move on. If not, you lose respect and move away. It's simple between actual human beings!

That's harder to do on a macro scale like with signs, in business etc. so you use pc guidance and that's what it's handy for so you don't lose customers, tourists, funding, etc. to protect against the backlash of the media riling everyone up to assume they're under attack.

[jillydoll]

Yes well said Dangermouse...🙂

[CLKD]

Were any of you raised not to look: ask questions: be curious?  I was.  So many situations where I was curious I learned not to look/ask/find out.

Now when I'm in a group of usually un-known people who are different to me I begin with "How many languages to you speak?"  ....... I tried to chat with a woman in a burka recently, she seemed happy to reply but the man with her: ? husband? : in long robes, kept moving her on.  Didn't know if that was because DH was with me.  She was laughing as we chatted, I could tell by her eyes.  I am SO nosy  .  I feel I missed out a lot by being curious.  We had an American kid at School for 2 Terms: don't know where he hailed from nor where he went  - but he was on crutches and I so wanted to know why  .  But we had been pre-warned!

Now however: apparently "Like your grandma" [that's on Dad's side] - I will open conversation with people ...........

[Sparrow]

I also have the blonde thing plus the woman thing. The latter is more concerning though when there's is so much misogyny which is a hateful type of stereotyping. The same goes for racism, its often borne through fear (often an unconscious threat from stronger physique) rather than an assumption that you're thick or easy.

The rational pc stuff is there to protect but as you've all said, stupid versions are spread (often by the media) to create gossip and more news.

Diversity keeps life interesting - who wants to just hang out with clones of ourselves?! Our race, sex or hair colour should not affect us being able to have diverse minds, as long as we challenge our own views every day and embrace the changes it may bring.

In terms of being offended, you can only be offended if you respect the person offending you. Then you have the discussion and (usually) find out the intent was ok and you move on. If not, you lose respect and move away. It's simple between actual human beings!

That's harder to do on a macro scale like with signs, in business etc. so you use pc guidance and that's what it's handy for so you don't lose customers, tourists, funding, etc. to protect against the backlash of the media riling everyone up to assume they're under attack.

I get where you are coming from but don't you think that letting PC rules become extreme it totally undermines its purpose.  Then nobody takes it seriously in cases where it should be.

Believing this does not make someone racist does it?

The original post was about daft applications and no poster has suggested that there should be carte blanch to write or say what you want.  Just there should be sensible use.

[Sparrow]

Elkwarning I hear you. People like to quote"silly " examples to make it all look ridiculous. Words are very powerful and language changes all the time, otherwise we'd be still living like we were in the 70's when Benny Hill type comedy was the norm.

The thread is about silly examples though and we have moved on.  The point about the Little White Town nickname sign is that even the Councillor that asked for a vote on its removal didn't what it removed.  How daft is that.

[getting_old]

I get where you are coming from but don't you think that letting PC rules become extreme it totally undermines its purpose.  Then nobody takes it seriously in cases where it should be.

Believing this does not make someone racist does it?

The original post was about daft applications and no poster has suggested that there should be carte blanch to write or say what you want.  Just there should be sensible use.

I totally agree that using PC rules for all sorts of silly reasons is totally undermining them. That's the issue I have with a lot of the stuff that comes up, such as the bin bags example. It really devalues the genuine cases, a bit like the boy who cried wolf.

[dangermouse]

No of course not, as the only thing that can make someone racist is if they judge all people of the same race the same.

Sign-wise, it would be racist if it said only white people allowed in the town - as it would assume all white people will behave one way and all non-white people will behave another. When the truth is that some white people and some people of colour will behave themselves and some won't.

I suspect the sign was always taken in context in the past because the locals knew of its meaning and derivation. If the reason for the vote was because new locals or visitors didn't understand the meaning and/or had concerns it may be taken the wrong way, they also have the option of adapting the sign to add its meaning and from which book it derived which makes it interesting rather than a puzzlement.

It's not about having to explain things in case people jump to conclusions, it's about wanting to in order to educate and allay any fears.

[Sparrow]

It's not about having to explain things in case people jump to conclusions, it's about wanting to in order to educate and allay any fears.

I'm all for allay fears but it's very individual. What upsets one person won't matter a fig to another.  The problem with PC interpretation is its an unwritten, unregulated concept.  Therefore it's bound to cause disagreement about how and when enacted.  Not agreeing is perfectly legitimate point of view, isn't it??

[CLKD]

Teresa - your brother should have been told by the adults around to shut his big gob !