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[Clovie]

Just back from a GP appt.
Bottom line is it is being STOPPED completely by NHS Lothian for every woman.
On the grounds that it is not safe and does not protect against endometrial cancer.
So it's for our own good. Apparently.

However, it seems that other Scottish HAs and English, Welsh etc don't feel the same way and are allowing women to continue ;risking their health' by having it. (Despite the fact it does not protect against endometrial cancer .)  They are having the same drug.

Appt was an awful experience, felt rushed and the GP constantly did not listen to me, speaking over the top of me. I do have health anxiety but my husband, who was with me does not and he agreed it was not a pleasant experience.

She also told me that our risk of breast cancer goes up up and up (in an alarmist way, I have to say)  if on combined HRT for more than 10 years there would be an extra 40 cases in 1000 women. She gave me a print out of this recent study.  'Collaborative Group on Hormonal Factors in Breast Cancer' published August 2019. 


 
 

[Tracey E]

I'm really sorry to hear this Clovie. Do you think it's a cost saving exercise because of the free prescriptions and the amount they have to pay for the Utrogestan. Or is there a genuine concern for female health?

[Clovie]

I'm really sorry to hear this Clovie. Do you think it's a cost saving excersise because of the free prescriptions and the amount they have to pay for the Utrogestan. Or is there a genuine concern for female health?

I strongly suspect financial cull due to the fact that Utrogestan is wildly more expensive than synthetic prog (according to NICE pricing)   

[Tracey E]

I'm really sorry to hear this Clovie. Do you think it's a cost saving excersise because of the free prescriptions and the amount they have to pay for the Utrogestan. Or is there a genuine concern for female health?

I strongly suspect financial cull due to the fact that Utrogestan is wildly more expensive than synthetic prog (according to NICE pricing)   

That's pretty crap then...

[KiltedCupid]

Clovie - please don't worry too much, you can buy utro online and I know you shouldn't have to but if that's the prog you feel best on, then so be it. And as Mary G has said, if you or someone you know is going to Spain, you can stock up there. I vaguely remember a post from a few years ago from a lady in Lothian who mentioned then that her meno clinic were being sniffy about it. Obviously she was right but it's taken some time to filter through. I'm also in Lothian and am just about to trial a new regime using utro as my fem7 patches won't last much longer and if it works I'll buy it online.

What did your GP offer as an alternative? Did you suggest you'd get scans? Did she discuss oral vs vaginal route? It might be a good idea to try a different GP just in general, as that one sounded very abrupt. The other option is to go the private route and buy your utro outside Scotland.

You do have options Clovie, please don't worry. There's ways to sort this.

[Clovie]

Clovie - please don't worry too much, you can buy utro online and I know you shouldn't have to but if that's the prog you feel best on, then so be it. And as Mary G has said, if you or someone you know is going to Spain, you can stock up there. I vaguely remember a post from a few years ago from a lady in Lothian who mentioned then that her meno clinic were being sniffy about it. Obviously she was right but it's taken some time to filter through. I'm also in Lothian and am just about to trial a new regime using utro as my fem7 patches won't last much longer and if it works I'll buy it online.

What did your GP offer as an alternative? Did you suggest you'd get scans? Did she discuss oral vs vaginal route? It might be a good idea to try a different GP just in general, as that one sounded very abrupt. The other option is to go the private route and buy your utro outside Scotland.

You do have options Clovie, please don't worry. There's ways to sort this.

Hi Cupid

She said she was a locum so could make no decisions but she said she would not herself recommend Utrogestan to any of her patients as she has to 'do no harm'
I explained I had NO alternative as I've used various synthetic progs so I was stuck. She said she'd write away and explain my case and see what happens. She was holding out no hope though in reality.  She mentioned something about being prescribed private prescriptions from the surgery for utro POSSIBLY. She mentioned Mirena and I declined as it is pure synthetic prog and Id have no immediate control of how to stop it if  got bad on it (My prog symptoms are bleakness, tears, anger, paranoia, guilt insonia. I cannot function basically)
She said, if I WAS to be allowed  would I be prepared to take it orally? (as if orally was better than vaginally which I understand to be the opposite0, and she also mentioned would I take it continuously. I said no. No because it is prog that is responsible for increases in breast cancer so Id like to keep my exposure low.  She went on about protectlng against uterine cancer, which I know all about, and said Utro did not protect against it. Yet she offered me NO scan.

I'm cross because she said they had to stop utro because it is not licensed for use in HRT and someone could basically sue them if someone got breast cancer, yet my hubby asked how long had it not been licenced for HRT use and she said 2009 (?)

Can I really buy Utro online? Can you buy it from UK legally etc, you know.  I really would buy it online, I need it. 

You're in Lothian too? And you're getting it? I wonder if its just our surgery. I'm confused. Head in a spin with all this. Trying to get focussed on having a major op in 5 weeks. I really do not need this...

Thanks so much for your reply. xx

[KiltedCupid]

I've sent you a pm Clovie.

[Tracey E]

"She said, if I WAS to be allowed  would I be prepared to take it orally? (as if orally was better than vaginally which I understand to be the opposite0, and she also mentioned would I take it continuously. I said no. No because it is prog that is responsible for increases in breast cancer so Id like to keep my exposure low.  She went on about protectlng against uterine cancer, which I know all about, and said Utro did not protect against it. Yet she offered me NO scan."

I think I would if told a white lie there and said 'yes' to the continued prog. Asked for a scan of the womb to see all is well and then take it from there. Would she have prescribed if taken orally every day?

I must say I've not heard of any issues on taking Utrogestan vaginally instead of orally. Maybe she's knows something we don't..

[Mary G]

Clovie. I really do sympathise, I've never heard so much BS.   From what I have read and from what my gynaecologist has said, it is synthetic progesterone that can cause breast cancer not body identical progesterone.

[Clovie]

"She said, if I WAS to be allowed  would I be prepared to take it orally? (as if orally was better than vaginally which I understand to be the opposite0, and she also mentioned would I take it continuously. I said no. No because it is prog that is responsible for increases in breast cancer so Id like to keep my exposure low.  She went on about protectlng against uterine cancer, which I know all about, and said Utro did not protect against it. Yet she offered me NO scan."

I think I would if told a white lie there and said 'yes' to the continued prog. Asked for a scan of the womb to see all is well and then take it from there. Would she have prescribed if taken orally every day?

I must say I've not heard of any issues on taking Utrogestan vaginally instead of orally. Maybe she's knows something we don't..

Hi Tracey
Yes in hindsight maybe I should have - But then again no, she still wasn't prescribing it. Not allowed to anyway as it is being stopped full stop, but said even if she could she wouldn't as wasn't safe.
(I think she was talking about writing to the sexual health clinic and explaining my case when she asked me would I take it orally and/or continuously. My head is in a spin, the appt was so rushed, and I got so stressed and upset)

[Clovie]

Clovie. I really do sympathise, I've never heard so much BS.   From what I have read and from what my gynaecologist has said, it is synthetic progesterone that can cause breast cancer not body identical progesterone.

My thoughts entirely.

It's down to money. I just know it. 

[KiltedCupid]

Clovie. I really do sympathise, I've never heard so much BS.   From what I have read and from what my gynaecologist has said, it is synthetic progesterone that can cause breast cancer not body identical progesterone.

Agree Mary G - if the best meno clinics and gynaes in the UK are still prescribing it, they can't all be wrong. It's the safest prog, Clovie, your locum is clearly knee jerking from some memo sent out by NHS Scotland.

[Tracey E]

Big hugsss Clovie I'm sure it will get sorted soon. Do you want to carry on taking it?

[Hurdity]

Clovie - your locum does not know what she is talking about. Of course it's licensed for HRT!!!

She might be referring to the withdrawal of the 200 mg capsules which used to be available for HRT as well as fertility - but now only available for fertility - so only the 100 mg version is available for HRT. That does not mean it is dangerous. When used as part of cyclical HRT you just use 2 x 100 mg instead of 1 x 100 mg. Also if she is referring to that it was much more recently than 2009 that the 200 mg was withdrawn. I think she's got it the wrong way round. In fact utrogestan was first available for fertility purposes and then later licensed for HRT maybe around 2010 or so?. There is a heap of research about it.

I don't even know where to begin!

She is trying to fob you off with information. None of the breast cancer stats were carried out using micronised progesterone, but synthetic progestogens. She is also feeding you with misinformation and sounds like my GP ( not the nice gynae one) whom I don't see any more who also believes all the stats and doesn't know enough about it - whereas my nice gynae GP was also very scathing about the recent Lancet study (which was much discussed on here) giving an increased risk of breast cancer from HRT but ising a whole lot of compiled stats. There's a massive thread devoted to this and links to responses by all the learned menopause societies.

Also even though Lothian is not recommending it - I am sure that if it is licensed in UK then docs can bypass the forumlary or trust recommendations provided they justify it - and certainly in England they do not need to write? I'm sure I said earlier EVERYTHING I get for my HRT on NHS ( apart from estriol cream and vagifem) is not on the list for my area. Maybe it's different in Scotland?

Re doing your own thing and buying it online etc going to Spain. I know lots of women advocate doing this on here - and especially to get their HRT if there is a shortage - but for a licensed product not in short supply you should not need to do this. I totally understand why you would want to go down this route if you can afford it  in order to keep well - but it's an issue that needs ironing out too so that other women know what to do.

I do think writing to Dr Currie ( who as far as I know is wholly an NHS gynaecologist, not private - and good for her!!) might be an idea. It would cost £30 but you would get the definitive answer and whether Lothian's position is valid, and how to overcome it - eg what to quote if needed.

I did write to Emma about this the last time it came up and asked her to pass it on to Dr C and possibly to post on the relevant thread - and Emma did so but at the same time said that Dr C was extremely busy. However if you pay for a consultation - you will get an answer!!

Obviously clovie you need to do what's right for you and I remember our discussions a few years ago ( can't remember when it was now?) but it just keeps on coming up!!!

So sorry you have been made to feel upset over such an important issue and good luck with whatever you decide...

 

Hurdity xx

[KiltedCupid]

Hi Clovie - I just checked and utro is available online from oxford online - £29.99 and they have them in stock.