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[KiltedCupid]

TC, I really feel for you and I think you're right, we are in the same predicament. I don't mind at all if you speculate, please do! And I don't mind a long story either as it gives me insight in what you're going through and I think it will help us both not feeling so alone.
Contrary to you I immediately feel worse when I try bioidentical hormones. I did stop taking the pill before all this happened but it didn't make me feel this bad. I believe it has lowered my own estrogen level instead of increasing it. I sometimes feel that my body is seeing the exogenous estrogen from HRT as it's own and act accordingly if you know what I mean. It should add to my own hormones but it seems it's replacing them.  I find that very scary.
 
Yes, I firmly believe very low estrogen is causing our symptoms.. And progesterone, especially Urtrogestan, isn't making it any better in your case.

I'm losing hope. If always thought I could find a solution but nothing has worked, it only made it worse. I'm contemplating trying Patches and applying Estrogel on the vulva as someone had great results with that route. But what if everything gets worse again? Then, for me, there's no return.

Lke you I'm wondering if it's just non-absorption. Something else must be going on or you would feel some change, wouldn't you? If I remember correctly you're SHBG is also very high? But even if it's high there should be something left for your body to use. Oral bioidentical  tablets are also bound by SHBG and bioavailability is low, I believe, because of first pass through the liver. Maybe you could discuss low dose ethinylestradiol tablets with a progestin tablet as a possibility at your app.? Ethinylestradiol is more potent and isn't bound by SHBG.  Birthcontrol pills are usually to high and also the progestin in it is very high.  Don't lose hope yet, there are still options.

Alicess 🌷

Alicess - I've heard of ladies in meno taking half a low dose CCP with great results. I agree, I never had problems on the pill but have had a nightmare with bioidenticals, particularly transdermals.

[Tc]

Thank you Tracey. The last few days I've felt awful.  sick on the utro I cant eat  I've been  on  progynova 2 weeks. I didnt think it would be anyy different to estradot as I didnt think I was getting much from it  anyway but I've had a lightbulb moment  !!  I've been "screaming for eastrogen". "I  even thought of adding eastrogel.!!! .  Anxiety has got steadily worse.  Hot flushes today and my skin is so dry. Eyes mouth even  nose .  Its worse than ever. So it's back to estradot. I've only got a few left though.  Thank you for asking after me. How are you?


Alice I havent felt any benefit from testogel. But then I guess I wouldnt with low E. How did it make you feel?
When ovaries removed or once you are 12 months post meno FSH goes up and stays up.

I havent had anything other than utrogestan. Except on femseven which i think is levenogestrel.
Xxxx

[Alicess]

AG, thank you, I hope the specialist can give you some answers and I would really like to hear them too. Good luck!

Hurdity, I still have my womb and ovaries, I don't know if I'm in peri or menopause because I'm still on BCP'. If I stop taking them then cluster headache starts again. My symptoms where the same when I was on low dose patches and Estrogel so I don't think it's tachyphylaxis. To do a blood test means I have to stop birth control for three months. That's just not an option. I did do a blood test for testosterone though and my SHBG was very high and testosterone very low. It just dawned on me I took Pueriara ( strong phytoestrogen) and having the same response as on estrogel and patches. How can that be? Does my body not recognise bioidentical estrogen anymore? Because I"ve been on birth control for so long? If it's non-absorption then I should feel a little different on a higher dose? I only felt a little difference around ovulation. And only for one day.

KitidCupid, yes,, BCP's are stronger so it's overriding our cycle. I wish it would work for me still but after taking bioidenticals the pill just doesn't work anymore. I believe for some it"s a better solution. Some relief to know I'm not the only one with a negative experience.

TC, on testosterone I felt much the same as on estrogen. My hairloss was a little less and I sometimes felt a strange libido. Like only my body responded but no desire in my thoughts. But it made me feel as bad.

Alicess X
 

[Hurdity]

Alicess - I had no idea you were on BCP and didn't know where you were in menopause. Is it the CCP or the POP? Whichever it is no wonder you are feeling weird but especially if it is the CCP!  This is so non standard and who knows what's going on with your body with all that stuff floating around! This would not be prescribed in UK at all as far as I know - huge amounts of oestrogen on top of the oestrogen in CCP ( if that's what it is?).

If you're on CCP and some types of POP then you won't be ovulating anyway.

I don't think we can possibly advise you as this is all so unusual there is no experience to compare it with really. Sorry.

In your position having tried all this I would seriously stop everything for a while (several months) and see what's happening to your natural periods - I can't remember how old you are? It might be tough but you will have some idea and then the right treatment should follow depending on your cycle and symptoms. I would treat any symptoms (eg headaches) you get with other meds until you know what your natural cycle is doing. In UK there is a CCP that can be prescribed for peri-menopausal women who also need birth control called QLAIRA which has the bio-identical estradiol and controls your cycle. Not sure if this is available in ?Holland ( I think thats where you are - apols if wrong?!).

You could however have an e-mail consultation with Dr Currie maybe - costs £30 but I think you pay through your phone or Paypal so you should be able to access it - you could tell her your story briefly and what treatment you are having and you get to ask one question.

Really sorry but what you are doing is beyond my understanding and can't possibly fathom a guess what's going on in your body.

I really hope you manage to sort something out soon so that you feel better.

Hurdity x

[juliemargaret]

Hi all...hurdity can i just ask what is CCP and POP?  X

[Emma]

Alphabet soup used in this topic....


POP = Progestogen Only Pill
BCP = Birth Control Pill
SHBG = Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
FSH = Follicle-stimulating hormone
EE = Ethinylestradiol
BSO = Bilateral Salpingo-Oophorectomy

and
CCP= Combined Contraceptive Pill, but it is usually COC - Combined Oral Contraceptive (thanks, dahliagirl)

[dahliagirl]

I am thinking CCP= combined contraceptive pill, but it is usually COC - combined oral contraceptive

[Hurdity]

Haha yes dahliagirl- that's what I always use (CCP) as distinct from POP. Strictly speaking it was originally COCP. Don't know where I got CCP from  - here I expect!

Thanks Emma...

There is also GERD, and ER....

I realise that abbreviations can be annoying to some people but so can typing out things like "Sex Hormone Binding Globulin" every time - well just time-consuming when you're trying to reply to posts!! Maybe we could have an abbreviations section in forum guide or something to refer members to? Or maybe do one ourselves and get it pinned? Would this be good Emma?

Also - if in the dark then remember.... Google is your friend!

Hurdity x

[juliemargaret]

Gosh....all so much eh!  But thanks for explaining girls x

[Emma]

I'll see if they can be added to our A-Z
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/atoz.php

[AG]

Alicess,

I will let you know (via this thread) if specialist could help with the coordination etc issues when starting HRT. One thing that I am currently trying out is a low dose of B vitamins, and that seems to help but I will mention all of this to specialist. AG

[Alicess]

Hurdity, I should have explained my situation more thorough. When I was on HRT I didn't use birth control pills (or CCP).  I went off them. I did experience cluster headache but I stayed on HRT hoping it would get better which it didn't. The pain cluster headache gives is extreme and the painkillers I take can only give a little relief, even morfine doesn't help. So I can not endure it for months on end. I don't know why birth control pills stop the CH, my quess it's the androgenic properties.of progestins. Whenever I stopped birthcontrol I bleed heavenly and it won't stop. I'm 53 now, when I started HRT I was 48. I also tried Claira to no avail and I've  tried  Zoely, oral estradiol and normegestrol,  it gave me a beard and made me suicidal.

It is not uncommon in Holland though to give HRT together with BCP's as for some women BCP''S it just don't work as they should. For some women who experienced severe PMS or PMDD it has made a huge difference. BCP's don't always surpress a cycle or give enough estrogen. Some women even get pregnant on them.

It doesn't surpress my cycle  and I do still feel the ups and downs on the same days of each month. I don't know if I'm still ovulating but the days around ovulation I feel a little better and it's always on the same days of my 30- day cycle. My symptoms started when I used HRT for the first time and after that BCP didn't surpress my cycle anymore as it did before or gave any relief of symptoms. Some other women who were on birth control and started HRT also felt much worse as KiltedCupid mentioned. I don't know if HRT just isn't  strong enough or because ethinylestradiol isn't bound by SHBG and bioidentical estradiol is? Furthermore, BCP increase SHBG so maybe that's something to consider too? Surpressing FSH could also be important? Despite reading and researching so much I still don't have a clue.

I understand you can't give me a solution as it is complicated.

[Sammiejane]

Alicess

I was told by my GP that hrt is stronger then the pill. ? Is this right

[Alicess]

Sammiejane, to my knowledge the pill is much stronger than HRT so the opposite of what your GP has told you.

[Sammiejane]

Alicess

Well that is what I thought and recently I had follow up with gynocologist and when I mentioned to him about going on the pill he said I don't see why not it same as hrt both give u hormones and in my case having ovaries removed surely would be better if it's stronger ?

I've been told that because I smoke and over 35 I'm at higher risk of blot clots and dvt but then hrt you have this risk to as well as breast cancer !

I'm just in such a whirlwind with it all and currently am taking estradot patch 75 which I have headache every day and feel tired but other then that ok I guess but I feel like something is missing.

Also he couldn't understand why I hadn't been given testosterone already. !

As I'm not able to find a balance or the wonderful estrogel didn't obsorb my menopause are now suggesting well hrt just must not suit me and to stop it and this is the same predicament I was in 5 yrs ago when I had my op that because one hrt didn't suit me which was elleste solo mx40 transdermal patch my GP just said well hrt dosent suit you so stop it and just go through menopause I wad 35 which I think I's disgusting care personally I'm no 40 and went cold turkey for over 4 yrs and have now an autoimmune disease and osteopenia!
So I'm just going through them all and if estrogen not enough then will add progesterone and if that don't work will try the pill and if that don't work then I will stop everything I was greatful I had no menopause symtoms following my op and only started HRT because I was becoming emotional and had vaginal dampness which they believe was VA so take Ovestin . I now suffer hairloss and mood so up and down since starting hrt I don't sleep so exhausted and tired mentally and to top it off had to give up work , I've gained weight after loosing over a stone so feel really shit but I'm worried if I stop it now then will things be worse will my hair fall out more will VA be worse although I don't think low estrogen is the cause of my hairloss as it would of happened following my op and gradually got worse as my levels lowered but Infact as I didn't obsorb estrogel well and my estrogen levels went lower my hair wasn't shedding as much ! I think an imbalance is my problem or the spike in estrogen levels . All my blood test are fine and thyroid fine . I'm sorry u are going through what you are and I sympathize cause I'm having myself a tough time