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[MIS71MUM]

Hi everyone
Not been on the forum for a while - been doing really well on my 5 pumps of gel, so I've now reduced to 4. 

I have a question about the gel. previously I have always managed to get Oestrogel in the cylinder shape and it stated UK Pump Pack on the box.  This week, I have received it in a "vosene" shaped bottle!  This has happened to me before, but it was Oestradose and had labels all over it.  This batch is all in English and its called Oestrogel!! Never had this before - has anyone else?

I'm prepared to give it a go - but does anyone have any thoughts or received similar.  In the past, when I used Oestradose, I had a massive return of symptoms.  I've only ever used the Oestrogel in the past.

This batch expires in February 2022 so is newer compared to the cylinder batch of November 2021.

Thank you

[MIS71MUM]

Just wonder if the "vosene" shaped bottle may now be the new thing!  I have compared cylinder type with "vosene", and they are no differences whatsover, its just the shape and slightly different pump dispenser.

Does it tell you on your stickers where it's re-packaged?  I have no stickers.

I'm wondering if others will notice a change in their supply.

[Hurdity]

MIS71MUM - I guess companies change their product shapes and text/design every now and again for aesthetic reasons.

The product leaflet inside the box will tell you where it was manufactured (should be by Besins, Belgium - or is it France?!) and whether it was repackaged and/or distributed by another company. If repackaged, this does not involve opening the actual bottles/canisters to expose the gel which is held in a sealed pouch inside the bottle (so I've been told!).

I wouldn't worry though - it is all the same product! Sounds like it is also newly manufactured so should be in a good state to be effective....

So glad to hear you are doing well - and long may it last

Hurdity x

[bear]

Hi MIS71MUM,

Do you mean the dark green Vosene bottle from when we were young? My sister uses Oestrogel, I will ask her what bottle she's getting now. What about Oestrodose? Isn't it sold in France?

BeaR.

[JayJay]

Hi
I have been on the GEL but given DOSE, which is re-packaged in Doncaster.  (Only noticed that because it is where I live!).
Boots say the DOSE is the generic parallel import, and there could be inconsistencies with the product.  For example, I notice that 3 pumps of DOSE are different sizes, some more runny, whilst 3 pumps of GEL are like peas in a pod.
I think the DOSE is cheaper, and also easier to get hold of, and yes Boots did blame 'B'.

[Sammiejane]

Hi bear

Does your sister just use estrogel ? Or does she combine this with a progesterone ?

Has she suffered any hair thinning on the gel mainly scalp hair thinning ?

My hair has been thinning since being on HRT estrogen only it's mainly scalp my thyroid iron ferritin levels all fine and my estrogen level back in June was 104 and testosterone 0.6 but it appears I'm not obsorbing the gel well even though it suit me apart from weight gain and thinning hair as my levels dropped from 195 to 104 my menopause want me to increase from 2 pumps to three but I get so irritated and anxiety kicks in mood goes angry and I'm so tired I'm wondering if it due to low non existent progesterone as I e had hysterectomy and ovaries removed so don't need progesterone but I'm wondering if my body does and if this can help hair as I read we have progesterone receptors in our scalp ?

Please advise bear

[bear]

Hi Sammiejane,

My sister is on oestrogel only. She had a hysterectomy and unilateral oophorectomy (1 ovary removed), around 10 years ago and was put on oestrogel immediately after the op.

I think hair thinning is probably from lack of oestrogen, not from the gel. I had hair thinning (mainly on scalp) and I was never on the gel. This is menopause and ageing related, I guess.

If your oestrogen levels are low on 2 pumps and side effects are unbearable on 3 pumps, maybe you could swap to patches? I personally think the gel is a waste of time and money, only 10% is absorbed and many ladies are using more than 4 pumps to keep symptoms at bay.

I don't think progesterone is the missing link, but surgical menopause is very different from natural menopause so maybe you do need a bit of progesterone. I hate the stuff but everyone is different. I don't think you would get it on the NHS though. On the other hand, if your oestrogen levels increase with the patches, you could start testosterone, which is well known to improve hair growth.

I'm sorry I can't help you, I'm not on HRT and my sister lives abroad, but I will text her, maybe she can be of more help. I'm sure other ladies on here will help you. There's a thread on surgical menopause, maybe you can find some answers https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34701.0.html

Good luck!

BeaR.

[Hurdity]

Hi
I have been on the GEL but given DOSE, which is re-packaged in Doncaster.  (Only noticed that because it is where I live!).
Boots say the DOSE is the generic parallel import, and there could be inconsistencies with the product.  For example, I notice that 3 pumps of DOSE are different sizes, some more runny, whilst 3 pumps of GEL are like peas in a pod.
I think the DOSE is cheaper, and also easier to get hold of, and yes Boots did blame 'B'.

JayJay - Boots is wrong. It is a parallel import but NOT a generic. There is NO generic estradiol 0.06 % gel. Oestrogel/Oestrodose are the same branded products produced by Besins so there should be no inconsistencies. A generic product would be lableed just that "Estradiol 0.06 % gel" and could have completely different fillers. This is an important distinction. There is a whole long thread dedicated to this topic where I posted in detail ( verbatim) my responses from Besins. It goes off on fanciful excursions, tangents and red herrings from time time and almost invokes conspiracy theory - nevertheless the info is the same. Here is the thread: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40586.msg692139.html#msg692139

I appreciate that the (pump) mechanisms might be slightly different but you will see from Besin's response (don't have time to look now!) that they should be tested for compliance (in terms of the amount pumped). There are more likely to be differences in how you  absorb gel from the same bottle depending on the temperature of your skin, the products used on your skin, the temperature of the bottle, and the ambient temp as well as the area that you spread it over. It can never be exact!

I am thinking that maybe - finally- the parallel import has names the prodeuct correctly and they have produced canisters for the UK market - in view of all the confusion (and maybe the e-mails they keep receiving  !).

Sammiejane - why don't you post your query on a separate thread as you will probably get more responses as not the subject of this thread so more will read it elsewhere?

MIS71MUM - will be interested to hear what it says on your leaflet re manufacture and distribution!

Hurdity x

[Sammiejane]

Mis71mum

Have u had hairloss on 3/4 pumps of the gel ?

[bear]

BeaR - I absolutely love my Oestrodose - 1 little pump is a QOL changing dose for me and far from a waste of time and money.

Ah yes, I was talking about ladies who need more than 4 pumps. Glad it works for you!

Bear

[MIS71MUM]

Hi All

Yes I did notice some thinning of hair at the front last year when I felt that my levels on Oestrogen were quite low.  At the same time, I'd started testogel so put it down to a hormonal imbalance and stopped the testogel until I got my oestrogen levels up.

I then started using Plantur 39 shampoo which I think helped as I could see tiny hairs growing at the front of my scalp.  It's not cheap but you can it for 3 for 2 in Boots.  They do Shampoo, Conditioner and Tonic. 

Thanks Hurdity - yes I think you are right in that Oestrogel has been revamped!

Both Cylinder and Vosene Bottle have the same patient info leaflet.....and both are manufactured in Belgium and distributed in the UK by Besins London.  There is no mention of repackaging or Doncaster for that matter  !!!

So it appears that the oestrogel is now in oestradose shaped bottles - just to keep us on our toes.

[JayJay]

I appreciate all your responses.   Thank you, Hurdity.
Thoroughly understand I will never feel as good again as I once did, but just would like to get the best 'me' I can at the moment.
Must say I have been happy with the gel generally, although it is a bit of a pain (what isn't??!).
However, I do have concerns with my hair thinning, which I think has got worse.  It may of course be due to general ageing, but whatever is causing it - I am not happy.  The front and temples are particularly bad, and my hairdresser says it could be 'hormonal' but I didn't push her any further as she is young and obviously thinks I am just an old bag, so why should I really care?
Have tried the test gel, and although I did feel energised on it (1 teeny blob twice per week), I noticed after 2 or 3 weeks that strong, dark hairs had started growing on my upper lip.  A 14 year old boy would have been proud, but it really put me off as the hair on my head is fair and fine and I have little body hair, which is a good thing.
I like the convenience of the patches - is there a patch which makes your hair grown thick and fast (oest only, as I am on prog Ugest) ?
If it could also make me tall, slim and gorgeous with a smaller nose, then that would be a bonus 
Jay

[Sammiejane]

Mis71mum

What estrogen are u on and what dose .?

Thanks

[Hurdity]

Mis71mum

What estrogen are u on and what dose .?

Thanks

if you look at MIS71MUM first post in this thread you will see the oestrogen she is using and the dose.

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

I appreciate all your responses.   Thank you, Hurdity.
Thoroughly understand I will never feel as good again as I once did, but just would like to get the best 'me' I can at the moment.
Must say I have been happy with the gel generally, although it is a bit of a pain (what isn't??!).
However, I do have concerns with my hair thinning, which I think has got worse.  It may of course be due to general ageing, but whatever is causing it - I am not happy.  The front and temples are particularly bad, and my hairdresser says it could be 'hormonal' but I didn't push her any further as she is young and obviously thinks I am just an old bag, so why should I really care?
Have tried the test gel, and although I did feel energised on it (1 teeny blob twice per week), I noticed after 2 or 3 weeks that strong, dark hairs had started growing on my upper lip.  A 14 year old boy would have been proud, but it really put me off as the hair on my head is fair and fine and I have little body hair, which is a good thing.
I like the convenience of the patches - is there a patch which makes your hair grown thick and fast (oest only, as I am on prog Ugest) ?
If it could also make me tall, slim and gorgeous with a smaller nose, then that would be a bonus 
Jay

  - if only eh?!

The patch won't have any different effect on hair than gel as it's all estradiol - except you might absorb a different amount from one than the other. Oestrogen itself won't make your hair thin - it's what makes us feminine - as well as having a decent amoiunt of testosterone ( for hair growth not femininity). The balance needs to be right ( between Oestrogen and T) I think for maximum benefit.

Maybe you are reacting to one of the fillers in the gel? Have you looked up the ingredients (is it oestrogel?)? I think there are women who are sensitive to one of the ingredients ( there aren't many in oestrogel)?

I've been using Estradot patches for years. Currently 62.5 mcg. My hair is much much thinner than it used to be - but it isn't thinning as such though - well not noticeably - but you expect that after menopause (thinner hair) - due to general reduction in oestrogen and teststerone levels (presumably) despite some replacement.  The levels (from HRT) are nowhere near what they are when I was fertile and menstruating! Gone are the thick lustrous locks!!! Straw comes to mind now!!!

If you look at most very old ladies their hair is very thin - so I presume this is hormonal as levels drop off considerably and especially testosterone, androgens generally towards the end of our lives?

Unless you have an underlying condition causing the hair thinning ( I have no expertise on this but there are others on here who do...  maybe do a search from the home page - but not sure what you would search for as it's quite a general topic....) then you need more hormones!!

I do sympathise though. Hope you find an answer to thickening your hair!

Hurdity x