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[Tc]

Hi birdy and CG.
I was thinking the utro will be out of my system by now too. I dont know whether to start it again.
My b12 and folic were low a few months back and doc gave me tabs. The levels went up on them into the low side of normal but obviously I havent maintained that  and now iron too. I just  found some leftover cynocolbalamin  so I've started them .. It may be caused by my tummy issues which .might also be causing the back and pelvic pain. I just feel something isnt right aside from hormones. I'm back in bed and I only got up at 12.30. I just cant get myself together at all.
Can I ask a personal question please? With IBS does it feel like you have pressure in back passage.and anus As though you need to open bowels although you actually dont. I'm not constipated. 3 or 4 times in the morning and it's a lot. But I "feel" constipated.
Xx

[Perinowpost]

When I say Utrogestan takes a week to come out of my system what I mean is it takes that long to mentally feel my usual self again. So although it may have technically left my system it's like receptors in my brain take a while to recover. A bit like withdrawing from anti-depressants for anyone who has ever done that journey - it takes a while for your brain to recover. It's just a theory as why you're feeling so rubbish Tc. And also incidentally the reason I've promised myself I'm not taking Utrogestan again, I just can't face it. I've had a delay re my jaydess fitting but it's now booked and I'm hopeful this will be the solution for me (I know Orangefoot is having great success with it) x

[Tc]

Birdy. I'm wondering about that too. The womens physio did a vaginal exam and said no prolapse but i think she meant the bladder and I was laying down when she did it.. When I stand I think I can feel something dragging down.. Even sometimes when laying down the vagifem applicator seems to be blocked from going further than an inch or so  in and then and I realy have to push past something and wriggle it about  to get it in. And it hurts. It's not dryness as that's improved with vagifem and it's not tightness. A finger seems to move in o.k but the slim vagifem applicator just hits it. Maybe she wasnt looking for bowel or maybe it was O.K the day she examined me. She even said herself in the class sometimes it's more easily felt than others. She said my pelvic floor strength wasnt terribly weak. It was average.
Maybe something happened during my op, I just dont know if it is the bowel pressing into vaginal wall. If it is I guess that wouldnt help the bladder either. Maybe when I have my colonoscopy they will be able to tell.
I sound like I'm  being a hyperchondriac but I'm not looking for things. They are all realy happening and all at the same time. I guess I must have several different things going on. I just wish some doc would take a more holistic approach to find answers. I feel like different symptoms are being put into separate boxes by different docs when they might well be linked.
I just want to unravel it all so I know what is causing what.  I feel like im getting nowhere and worse than that things are actually deteriorating.
Sorry for being so self involved. I'm just at my wits end with it all.
Perin. I see what you mean. Sorry you've had a delay in the jaydess. I hope you find good results from it as orangefoot has.

Xx

[Tc]

Thank you so much birdy. I've started the b12 I found. The physio did say "you dont want to let go" when I squeezed and stressed that I must allow time to relax muscles between the squeezing exercises so maybe pelvic tightness might be a factor although she didnt say that.
Do you do pelvic excersises. I remember reading they can make tightness worse.

I've had a horrid weekend birds. I tried to stay in but had to see family. Everyone noticed and  was saying "what's wrong with you" but I thought "where do I start". So I just said "nothing I'm fine" but I'm far from it. Keep realising I've got tears rolling down my cheeks. I just feel horrible
I'm going to try to get emergency docs appointment tomoro. After my useless appointment last week I think I need a second opinion.
Thanks for sticking with me on this thread ladies. It means a lot to be able to say how I feel and get some much needed reassurance and advice.
Much love to you allxxxx

[Rosie63]

Hi Tc. I'm so sorry you are suffering like this at the moment.  This meno stuff really sucks doesn't it 😞 I'm not up on all this stuff really so can only try and help from my own experiences so far.  I tried Estradot patches for quite a few months alongside Utrogestan and it didn't work for me.  I really wanted it to because I've tried so many different regimes but I felt so ill in the end, I had to give up on it, reluctantly. I tried it cyclically to start with but as I was having quite a dip when I finished the Utrogestan, I tried it continually but didn't feel any better.  I also tried different doses of Estradot but again, saw no improvement.  My thoughts were that I wasn't absorbing and I'm wondering if this could be the same for you ? Sorry, I can't recall if you have tried other regimes but would this be a possibility for you ?  This would be a way of getting out of having to tell your GP that you've changing doses if you said it just wasn't working for you and you wanted to try a completely different regime ?  To be honest though, I would try and change your doctor if at all possible because she sounds totally unsympathetic and that's not what you need when you are desperate for help.

Regarding your post about IBS, now this is something I have a lot of experience of as have suffered for years.  I have always thought mine was worse at certain times in my cycle.  I remember my mum taking me to the doctors when I was in my teens because I either couldn't go to the loo or I was going too much.  In those days (I'm 64 now) IBS wasn't heard of and it's only in later years, after many tests, I was diagnosed.  I think the whole thing with IBS is that it can show itself in different ways in different people so, in my opinion, the discomfort you are suffering could well be down to IBS.  Again though, you need help from your GP and it doesn't sound as though you are going to get it from your current doctor.  I remember years ago after seeing one particular doctor about stomach issues, he said something like ‘what do you want me do, take your stomach out'.  Stupid man !!  Needless to say I never went to see him again 😡

It sounds from your posts Tc that you've got yourself in a bit of a pickle with it all and you need some help, support and understanding from your doctors which is what you deserve so please do try to see another doctor.

Sending you much love 💕 and keep us updated.

Rosie63 x

[Tc]

A bit of a pickle indeed rosie.
A different gp had already referred me for endoscopy and colonoscopy which I'm having on 21zt. Hopefully might get some answers.

About the absorption. I was reading up C &W info and I can see why the meno nurse told me to go there. They can fit an implant for women who have tried other methods and had absorption issues.  interestingly they say the target range on the implant post meno is  between 300 and 600 pml which kinda kicks my docs "129 is normal even on HRT " theory to the kerb. I am seeing a different gp next week and I'm determined to get a referral there. If they still refuse I'm going to take it further.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me xxx 

[Tc]

Hiya ladies. I've been so low the last couple of weeks I've barely given my HRT a second thought.
But I've just realised I've been off utrogestan for 3 weeks now. I've noticed no difference and in fact tiredness and depression have been at an all time worse in the last couple. so I guess my symptoms mighte been due to my other current health issues.
 Still no bleed.but
I feel that I must be finally getting some eastrogen as my breasts are bigger and firmer. They are sore but I'm seeing it as a sign I'm absorbing at least something.  Maybe I'm being a bit naive seeing it as a good sign when I might be storing up trouble breast wise

I'm on  150 patches.

I dont see gynae til end of month. But Im not sure  if I should restart before then as I dont know if  by then what will be 6 weeks  unaposed eastrogen is too long.

I'm glad I stopped it as I've been able to rule it out to some extent but I dont want to keep playing around with things myself at the risk  of  increasing my risk of serious possible side effects. Which is in the back of my mind having gone "off piste" so to speak.

I think I should leave my eastrogen as it is til results of blood test  So my dilemma is to restart or not to restart. I feel whatever I restart with I should probably stick with for a while to gain some sort of stability so I've also got to decide between cyclical and continous. Cyclical would mean 200mg which I'm fearful could ramp up my fatigue and depression. Should I expect a bleed when I restart?

The great progesterone dilemma!!
Xx

[sheila99]

I don't think 6 weeks will be a problem. I have a natural 6 week cycle so have continued this on HRT(still peri and it causes fewer problems this way). 150 is a high dose though so I'd be reluctant to leave it much longer without gp support. Some people in meno use a longer cycle.

[Ladybt28]

Hey TC - I run a 28 day gel and 12 day utro cycle.  It has only got so in the last 2 months I can manage 12 days Utro.  When I started I could only manage 7 and then it went to 10 and last month I did 12.  I have left it a total of 5 weeks on the gel only once when I was going away on a trip.  I am post meno and no way can I take continuous utro.  I know therearae women like Sheila99 who have been doing 6 weeks on gel only but I don't think I would leave it much longer than 6 weeks on gel only.
I'm not sure about "Gp support" - my experience has been that if we tell them we are doing anything that they consider "out of the ordinary" they tend to freak.
What I would say though is, when I go for a check up I will ask for a scan but my body isn't doing anything odd, it's working to the cycle when I stop 200mg utro I bleed for 3/4days regular as clockwork.  I think there are enough of us on longer cycles 6 - 8 weeks gel only for it to be safe enough.  I have to agree to disagree with Birdy though (no offence Birdy) I wouldn't go a whoe 3 months on gel only and then try Utro - 12 weeks seems too long to me.

[Tc]

Thank you ladies. It's good to hear different opinions and experience.
On recent experience I now dont think utrogestan was the root cause, although it may have contributed.
Ithe last couple weeks have been particularly hellish. I started taking testogel 3 weeks ago every day. But I dont think this would cause worsening depression and fatigue. It's supposed to help both.
As you know I have other health issues now which are confusing the situation. So maybe I should just settle on a routine and stick with it a while.
As I've never experienced meno without hrt I actually dont know if I would be better not on it, it would seem some ladies feel they are. but then I might just fall right through the bottom of the pit  which is far more scary. So I realy want to give it a fair shot.
I think possibly suddenly going onto 200 might be a bit of a shock to the system. So I guess I might have to conti 100 again.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Always much appreciated.xxx

[Tc]

Sorry to bump this thread  and risk rehashing old ground  lots of you ladies have kindly answered my questions re utrogestan in the past but then I wasnt sure if it was causing issues and now I am. I think I can safely say for sure now that I cant tolerate conti.

 After my month long hiatus from 100 conti I said I thought it maybe wasnt the main culprit but I've changed my mind!!

3 weeks back on it and I'm back on the progesterone ride and I want to get off.

Tiredness, low grade headache, nausea,   upset tummy worsening night sweats/ flushes.and worst of all low mood and depressive thoughts.

My e levels have fallen and are under 200 so the gynae said I can do 7 days. Or 12 days.

So I'd like a second opinion on my own thoughts of what to do next please.

I was o.k on the first 10 days and symptoms started to creep back over the next 2 or 3 and sudden sharp worsening after that til now (21 days). So. Going by that I'm thinking 12 days might still be too long as symptoms appeared at 10. Although not terribly bad for another couple of days. I could probably stand the slight worsening between days 10 and 12  but I'm assuming the dose will need to be 200 instead of 100 so any effect might be doubled. Does double dose mean double symptoms. If it does then even 12 days might be too much for me.

I've had 3 weeks worth of 100 in the last 2 months but eastrogen is low and no bleed so I guess it's safe. But I've increased to 2x100 e patch. The doc thinks I'm on 150 so said 7 days although "controversia in some circles" l is an option.

 I know I should probably try 12 x 200 first but the symptoms are so debilitating and I had just started to feel a little better before this after having a breakdown with anxiety a few weeks ago. so depression creeping back in  makes me fearful. Especially with how quickly it can get to unmanageable  level.

How to make the switch? If I'm going to do 7
Should I stop taking it tonight and then reintroduce 200mg in 23 days?  or increase to 200 now for 7 days. I must admit the thought of increasing right now is daunting as Im already at that point of "no more. Make it stop" which I know many of you are familiar with and I actually dread even taking another night of 100.tonight.

Any thoughts much appreciated. It's impossible to contact the gynae and I've been discharged from the clinic now anyway whilst awaiting referral to c and w and as far as my gp goes  I might as well ask my  cat!!

. I now realise that if anything is going to stop me taking HRT altogether it's gonna be the intolerable progesterone side effects  so I realy need to find a solution as my gynae said she is "absolutely positive" I  will feel better with more E in my system and Iim hoping  with all my heart that shes right  so I  dont want to give up yet.

Any help  very much appreciated ladies.

Much love to all xxx

[sheila99]

I'm not an expert so you may get better replies. If it was me I would stop utro now and go on a long (3 month) cycle. The lining depends on how much you absorb not the strength of the patch and as you don't absorb well I don't think you're in any more danger than the rest of us. 12 days of 200 would be ideal but not of you get suicidal. Can you tell when it's building up and stop before it gets too bad? If you're unable take it for 10 days or don't have a proper bleed I would go for a scan privately after a year if your gp won't send you for one.
 I have a natural 6 week cycle and my lining was still after 40 years so I personally don't think there's a need to stick to 28 days.

[Tc]

Thank you sheila. Yes I can now tell. I know I cant take it another night. I now understand when ladies have said that. I just cant risk it  again.

Thank you for sharing your experience with me it's so helpful   

[Ladybt28]

Hi Tc - I was where you are last August.  Exactly where you are writing a post called "screaming inside"! So I immediately stopped my continuous progesterone and went a clear 28 days (4 weeks) without any.  In fact I was so bad and the ladies here said stop1 I think it was 5 weeks before I started with utro again.  Then I reintroduced it and started counting.  The first month I only managed 7 days. Then I built to 9 and so on.   I have been running a 28 + 7/9/12 days.  It has taken me since last August to get to being able to go to 12 days without falling down a hole.  It seems  I have had to build up to it. It is only the last 3 months I have managed 12 days.  The longer cycle 28 days before starting Utro at 200mg seems to work for me.

I am 10 months in and it has taken this long to get control of everything and to work out what I can do without feeling awful.
I have never dropped to 100mg but so I can't say for certain but I wouldn't assume that twice the dose means twice the problems?  Just stop and go to a cycle - I did what the ladies here said and I have been on the right track ever since.

I agree with Sheila - get scanned once a year.  That is what I plan to do and as you know I have been so bad I will not let anyone tell me what "I should be doing".  Start with 28 oestrogen + 7 days utro and see  what happens.  Keep to this for 3  months and then if you can extend past 28 days then so be it just like Sheila says.  Good Luck

[Tc]

Thanks lady.
Its realy helpful to hear that.  building up your tolerance  makes so much sense.
The gynae did say if I go to 7 days I will need to be scanned regularly.
I stopped it last night. I'm going to try what you and sheila have suggested and when I go back on it do 7 days at 200. It realy does seem it's like poison to some of us.
I remember you were suffering terribly when I first joined forum back in October I'm so glad you finally got it sorted.
Much love xxxx