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[Countrygirl]

Tc I have found I couldn't go the 4 days so change on day 3 regardless of what the instructions says about 3 then 4. I've noticed differences depending on when I change it late at night or first thing in the morning so I'm wondering if there's a knack to getting the best out of patches, so will watch replies with interest x

[Tc]

Thank you CG.
Ladies. This is a bit of a long update but  I had a telephone consultation early this morning with a meno nurse from the British meno society about my eastrogen issue.
She said I dont "fit into the typical box"  as I'm not absorbing from anything Ive tried and someone with more expertise needs to look at why I'm so "eastrogen resistant". She said it realy is the main issue for me. . She said its unusual.. She advised me to ask for a referral to the panay clinic at C and Westminster.

 She said that it was also  unusual that at 53 I had no peri menopausal symptoms and totally regular periods. She wondered whether the cyst on my ovary might have caused the ovary to throw out more eastrogen  so my levels were higher than would have been otherwise at my age. And that's why after the op I went "off the cliff from a greater height".

She said I'm sorry you probably dont want to hear this  but you are not typical. A gp and your gynae with no disrespect are not specialised enough for you.

 I'm not happy about being "atypical" obviously.it seems like it's going to be even more of a struggle than I thought.  It's not what I wanted to hear but I did kind of know that already in my heart. I knew it wasnt right to not absorb anything after 7 months.i know it can take a while for most ladies but for me it seems my  options are narrowed now  If I'm never going to absorb transdermally.
She mentioned the hormone pill which I'm quite frankly scared of. She also said as I ve tried patches and gel to no effect I might be a candidate for the implant

. She said its " very very likely" that my low E is causing the depression. So I'm now thinking. Well it's not gonna lift until the eastrogen deficiency is sorted which may take some time, I dont know how long the waiting list is for C and W so I might .have to reluctantly go on AD's.

 The thought that I might be resistant to any HRT and the fact that I now know I'm not going to feel better anytime soon is devastating. I've come to my mums to try take my mind off it otherwise I know I'd just sit and cry all day.
Xxx

[Joaniepat]

Hi TC. I agree wholeheartedly with the BMS nurse and with Birdy. Don't give up but get a referral to the Chelsea & Westminster menopause clinic. Like you, I absorbed sod all from the gels, but have now got up to a stunning 467 pmol/l on 125mcg Estradot. My case is not as complicated as yours because I had a TAH/BSO years ago so only need oestrogen and testosterone. They will give you a thorough going over at the C&W. I don't know what the waiting list is like for new referrals so you may have to be patient, but put the wheels in motion asap. From your other posts, I think you have been mucked about for long enough and need better advice and treatment (cos we're worth it!).
Much love,
JP x

[Robin]

Great post JP and thrilled to read your levels are up 🎉

[Joaniepat]

Great post JP and thrilled to read your levels are up 🎉

Thank you Robin. Apparently my face was a picture when she told me  .

I am dropping down to 100 mcg Estradot as she thinks that should be enough, but I can, of course, play around with the local oestrogen to compensate. Some will tell you that VA symptoms should improve with higher serum levels and others say that targeted treatment is the key. I guess the truth must like somewhere in between!

Hope you are keeping well.

Love
JP x

[Tc]

Hiya ladies.
I decided on Monday morning to put 2 x 100 eastradot patches on after trying 175 for a couple of weeks to no avail.
My hot flushes have got worse. It's not that they are my main concern its just that it's the opposite of what I expected to happen.
I've also felt extremely tired,and weak.  That might be unrelated but it's also the opposite of what I expected.
The womens physio I saw yesterday said the same as the meno nurse. All my symptoms poi t to low eastrogen.but I'm now on 200!!
 I literally nodded off in a traffic jam whilst driving home!! Went straight to bed at 6.00pm and only woke up with hot flushes til 9.00 this morning. I dont mind sleeping because I havent been sleeping well for so long but it's such an exshausted wiped out feeling and i feel so weak.
 I dont understand it. Could it be too soon to expect a difference on the higher dose.. I cant see how the extra eastrogen could cause symptoms to worsen  but I may be wrong and maybe it can. Or maybe I'm still not absorbing anything at all  and as time goes on my symptoms are just worsening because of that. .

Im at a complete loss. I've got gp appointment to ask for referral to Chelsea an w but the earliest I could get was 1 may to see gp. and my exsisting gynae appt is t til end of May. It seems a long time.to wait when after 7 months of this with zero relief I'm just getting worse and worse. 200 is the highest dose. I just dont know where to turn or what to do.
X

[Tc]

Hi birdy. I havent noticed those symptoms before with the P except for the first couple weeks but maybe it has built up now and causing an imbalance. I guess only a blood test will tell. Ive got one end of may.i think a blood test is the only way as I'm realy in "second guessing" territory now.
Thanks for your reply. Hope your o.k today x

[Tc]

The meno nurse mentioned the HRT pill and she also mentioned the implant. She said implant is  not a first "provider" option and so would have to be through someone more specialised  but that not absorbing transdermally might make me a candidate.
Thinking back. When I took the contraceptive pill in my teens and early 20s I had absolutely no problem with it whatsoever  I know it's different but it's still hormones and some ladies who struggle with P also seem to have had issues with the contraceptive pill  but I didnt. So maybe the HRT pill would be better for me.
I need to research the HRT pill as I have no knowledge of it at all. I do know that transdermal is considered safer though so I'm so disheartened that it hasn t worked for me.
I guess I could always try a different patch but I'm not sure that would make any difference.
Xx

[Jeepers]

Hi TC

So sorry to hear that you have been going through this, you must be feeling wrung out. Its just rubbish, that the earliest you can get an appointment is 1st May!

How are you feeling this evening?

Sending much love

Jeepers xx

[Saffy]

Oh TC, what a nightmare this is for you  . I can't remember - have you managed to increase your oestrogen levels at all by any method you've tried so far? I clearly don't absorb much but my levels have crept up somewhat as I've doubled from 100 to 200 patches, even if it doesn't really feel like it.

I still think you need to ditch the continuous progesterone for now as it really can mitigate any beneficial effects of oestrogen for some women.

I'm loathe to say it but perhaps you could consider an anti-depressant as an interim measure while you work towards raising your oestrogen levels? You sound so low and sometimes you just need to get yourself into a better space before you can tackle the next step. xx

[Tc]

Thank you ladies  saffy I've inceased to 200. 2 x 100 patch. I only did it Monday. Hot flushes horrendous last night. Did it take you long to see benefits from the increase
The other thing is when I took my patches off this morning I've got a rash where they've been. That's new!!
Love to you all and thanks for taking the time to reply. Xxx

[Saffy]

Umm well, I hate to say it but I have felt the sum total of zero improvements since I went from 100 to 200, even with a measured increase in blood levels of oestrogen  . The (minimal) flushing, early morning adrenaline surges and most of the low level anxiety went once I got to the 75 patch, despite obviously very low blood levels of oestrogen at the time.

All increases since then plus the testosterone have been to try and sort the brain fog, lack of concentration, muscle aches and exhaustion but I could swear I am getting worse rather than better  . I started with a 25 patch and it has taken well over 2 years to get to this point *sigh*.

[Tc]

Saffy. It seems our bodies are realy fighting us on the old eastrogen front doesnt it. The morning surges are awful. It's a terrible way to start the day. If I could get rid of those and the flushes I'd feel I was realy getting somewhere. It's so strange that other ladies get their levels so much higher on lower doses. It seems  the slight increase on 75 was enough to sort some of your symptoms  but obviously not enough for others. How long have you been on 200?

My hot flushes are worse which would indicate it's not working for me as I've read that is the first symptom to go. But. I hate to say it and I will be very reluctant to tell the doc because I know what shell say  but I've had constant breast pain since I increased. Hard to get comfortable in bed.and bra is killing me.  This is new. If it's enough E to cause that why isnit dealing with the flushes.
When I was 40 I had painful breasts and lump which upon ultrasound found many cysts in both breasts. I was told st the time it was hormone related and as i got older the pain would lessen and cysts might shrink. The pain did lessen and only was sore before periods after that. It's such a worry as I dont want to set off any cysts I have especially as the HRT doesnt seem to be doing anything positive for me.
I think what has been said to me on here about utrogestan is probably right. I am  very "spacey" and sleepy. But I'm scared to even change that now as I'm so confused about what my body is doing eastrogen wise. I stopped for 2 days this week but felt worse I guess it mightve been withdrawal  but I  panicked and went back on it. I just dont want to start a cycle up  before I see the gynae  12 days a month might  not be enough on such high eastrogen. It's all such a stresser and being .anxious over what's happening inside my body.
I feel so stuck.i realy feel like stopping it altogether cos of the worry its causing .me  but then I dont want to be like this for years to come  it's no quality of life.struggeling to get through every day feeling so depressed and defeated.

Sorry for having a moan saffy. I'm just sick and tired now  literally. I just want to see even a small improvement. I'm so utterly fed up.
Xxxxxx

[Saffy]

You moan away TC, it's all so flippin' frustrating!! Oh yes, the morning surges were horrible. I would start every day feeling really grim with a feeling of doom that I couldn't shake off  .

Mentally I'm mostly OK now (I decided to see a counsellor at around the same time I started HRT as a two-pronged approach really and I still see her every few months or so). I still have a feeling in the back of my mind that everything is a bit precarious and it wouldn't take much to drop down a dark hole or set off anxiety. I have certainly retreated into myself and I was pretty heavily introverted to start with  .

I've been on the 200 about six months now and the only thing I have had to show for it is also breast pain. I have a ton of cysts too. My breasts were really sore and lumpy, mainly cyclically, for years (since early 40s really) but it ramped up in peri. In fact, although my breasts had softened and shrunk a little, the cysts were still forming almost overnight at times. Have been down the 2 week referral for mammo/ultrasound route and everything is fine but hair-raising nonetheless. Every HRT change led to breast pain which subsided after a few weeks but moving up to 200 it took pretty much five months until it subsided (still comes back halfway through Utro phase though). The specialist suspects I may be at the maximum level of oestrogen that my breasts will tolerate but that makes no sense to me - surely it must've been higher than this when I was younger? Do give it some time 'though. You really do need to let the hormones settle and your flushes and breast pain may well subside too, given a few months.

Re: the progesterone. My GP was panicked about me using the 100 patches with only the standard 12 days X 200 dose of Utrogestan until my meno specialist reassured her that it wasn't a problem due to my low blood levels of oestrogen. I mean many women have much higher blood levels into the 600s or more with much lower dose patches and no one would bat an eyelid. She still has no worries at 2 x 100 patches as my blood levels are still pretty low. I do understand your concern, 'though.

I do hope you manage to achieve some kind of improvement soon TC as I totally understand the despair and the feeling that you have no quality of life. I feel the same even without the flushes and awful anxiety/depression so I can only imagine how grim it is for you. xx

[Tc]

Thanks saffy. We seem to have very similar issues. I will give it more time on 200 but I agree with you. If its affecting the breasts why isnt it helping symptoms. The one place i dont want it to have an effect is the only place it does!!
I realy dont know if I can keep up the utrogestan til my appt though. I'll take it one day at a time.
Thanks for your reply. I hope you have a nice bank holiday weekend xxxxxx