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[Blue Kingfisher]

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone has had a 24 hour urine test such as this one below & what other people's opinions or experiences are of blood tests to measure oestrogen as opposed to urine?

https://dutchtest.com/info-dutch-complexe

My urine test says I'm oestrogen dominant but my bloods (& according to my gynaecologist - Studd Clinic) my oestrogen levels aren't high enough particularly as I'm presenting with early signs of oesteoporosis.....

I feel terrible when my oestrogen is supposedly at its highest point in my cycle but it's terribly confusing to understand if i feel rotten because my oestrogen is too high at this point or because it's not high enough!

[Hurdity]

Hi BlueKingfisher

This is a US site so not available here as far as I know - blood tests are standard and I didn't know even that it (urine tests) was offered. Even private tests that I've seen here in UK measure blood serum levels. 

Really it sounds to me like a money-making exercise....

By the way we're not actually supposed to put commercial links although as it is a US site I doubt anyone would click on it!

I'm not sure what you would hope to gain from it - I can't remember where you are in menopause but levels vary so much it's best to go by symptoms and not have expensive tests - even if it was available. So-called "oestrogen dominance" occurs during the first stage of the menstrual cycle anyway and around the mid poiint - when most women are feeling at their best. During peri-menopause when there are anovulatory cycles sometimes the "oestrogen dominance" causes heavy bleeding and clotting so this can be regulated by medical means eg Mirena coil or contraceptive pill? (other methods listedon this website). Also during peri levels fluctuate more so perhpas yours become very igh at mid point - I have no experience of adverse symptoms of this but I can understand your frustration!!

Have you though of the pill if you are under 50 - there are a couple that are similar to hRT? These would suppress your cycle and even out your hormones.

Really, blood tests won't help....at mid cycle even if your oestrogen levels are not as high as they were - if you are ovulating they will still be high and not too low to cause you to feel bad - this crash occurs sometimes just after ovulation (maybe it is this you are experiencing) and at the end of the cycle just before the bleed.

Sorry if this sounds a but garbled - I'm on my way out shortly!

Hurdity x

[nightmare]

Hi Bluekingfisher,

Just read your post and saw that you are seeing John Studd or one of his staff.  As I am actually going to see Dr. Bose at Harley Street next week I just wondered if you have been successful with the treatment Dr. Studd offers.  My main problem is depression and I have seen many posts on various forums that bio identical hormore treatment which I know John Studd offers helps enormously.  Without having to go back on all your posts I wonder if you could tell me if you are pleased with the treatment.

Thanks

x

[Blue Kingfisher]

Hi Hurdity,

Thanks very much for giving a broad & considered view & yes, I think many of us end up buying expensive tests out of desperation! I'm 50 in early April but no idea how long I've got in the péri phase as my mother ended up having a hysterectomy.

I'm not having any clotting experience & my periods themselves after starting the Studd regieme have been a breeze in comparison to what they were before. I'm feeling bad in my cycle from day 5 through to day 15 & then I miraculously feel well again until day 5 of the next cycle. Is it worth getting my oestrogen level tested in my good phase and another in my bad phase to compare the levels??

I also have Hashimoto's (underactive thyroid) & wonder if my oestrogen levels at this time of the month affect how the Levothyroxine behaves.

I think I might be too old for the pill to surpress my hormones....is there another method with gels/patches I wonder?

[Blue Kingfisher]

Hi Nightmare,

My health has improved dramatically since attending the Studd clinic. I see one of his team, not sure I'm allowed to say which one! I was also feeling depressed but my main symptom was EXTREME fatigue. I need to get half of my cycle more comfortable & the Studd clinic think I need to be on a higher dose due to malabsorption (my oestrogen levels are around the 300 mark on 5 pumps daily & showing early signs of osteoporosis). But my issues are complicated by a thyroid condition & im seeing lots of warnings about oestrogen hampering the effectiveness of my thyroid meds!

I think if I didn't have a thyroid problem I'd be singing off the roof tops about the Studd clinic so I'm probably not the best example for you! I can tell you however I improved vastly after adopting the routine as I just felt TERRIBLE ALL the time whereas now I feel terrible just some of the time if that makes sense!

I really hope it works for you & you get on well at the appointment x

[nightmare]

Hi Bluekingfisher,

Thanks so much for your prompt reply.  Hopefully I too will be singing from the rooftops.  As you say yours is more complicated.  It is however nice to know that at least it has helped you considerably and long may it continue.

I will keep you posted.

x

[Hurdity]

Yes it might be worth having a look at your blood results but in order to be at all meaningful you would probably need them done at least twice - ie two months of when you're feeling good feeling rough? Also needs to be same part of body away from where you apply the gel and at the same time of day.....

Suppressing the cycle is possible with very high oestrogen doses - in fact Studd clinic does this approach sometimes? Yes you can say who you see at the clinic - there don't seem to be any protocols on this forum about naming or not naming specialists as long as one doesn't make comments that could be deemed libellous!

However it does sound like your underactive thyroid could be playing a part in how you feel. I did read a paper suggesting that oral but not transdermal oestrogen affected thyroid uptake - because of its interaction with SHBG but it's all a bit complicated - the hormonal interactions and feedback controls - and I don't think even specialists can say - increase this exogenously and this will happen ( maybe wrong there!). Can you increase yout thyroid meds? I think it's important to get that right first and then look at your HRT - although I don't know much about thyroid hormone metabolism.

Let us know the outcome anyway.

Hurdity x

[Blue Kingfisher]

Thanks Hurdity. I can probably squeeze perhaps one more oestrogen blood test out of the NHS but getting another 2 (2 months in a row) is probably a bit greedy on their resources! There might be a finger **** test for oestrogen that I could buy privately....??

[Tc]

Is there an optimum level E  for treatment of osteo? 
I wonder if it's different I.e. lower levels to treat osteo post meno.

I've been talking about osteo on another thread. I have the hump type swelling at top of spine that all the women in my family who have osteo have also got.

I haven't had a scan but probably should as I've got longstanding history of eating disorder.
I was hoping my hrt  would help prevent it or if I already have it stop it getting worse but it seems my eastrogen level would need to be a lot higher to do that.my E in bloods yesterday
Was only 211 and I've been on HRT for 5 months.