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[Tc]

Hiya ladies. One week on eastrogel 3 pumps. Been putting it on my Arms top to wrist in the morning.
Waking up with hot flush. Something I didn't get on the patch.
I haven't put it on my thighs as they have a generous layer of fat. But so do my upper arms.
Anyone just put it on their forearm from wrist to elbow?
I'm already thinking I might split the dose 2 in morning one at night. Anyone use it like that,
The utrogestan realy  kicked in last night.after a week.  It didnt help me sleep at all and realy bad Stomach cramps all night and headache sick feeling this morning. Think I'm going to have to take it vaginally instead but I use estriol cream every other night so not sure if that would hinder absorption.
All in all a crappy day. Feel realy unwell but I'm lucky I don't have to do anything today so i think it's back to bed for a cuddle with the cat.
Hope you are all fairing a bit better.

[Peacegirl]

Hiya ladies. One week on eastrogel 3 pumps. Been putting it on my Arms top to wrist in the morning.
Waking up with hot flush. Something I didn't get on the patch.
I haven't put it on my thighs as they have a generous layer of fat. But so do my upper arms.
Anyone just put it on their forearm from wrist to elbow?
I'm already thinking I might split the dose 2 in morning one at night. Anyone use it like that,
The utrogestan realy  kicked in last night.after a week.  It didnt help me sleep at all and realy bad Stomach cramps all night and headache sick feeling this morning. Think I'm going to have to take it vaginally instead but I use estriol cream every other night so not sure if that would hinder absorption.
All in all a crappy day. Feel realy unwell but I'm lucky I don't have to do anything today so i think it's back to bed for a cuddle with the cat.
Hope you are all fairing a bit better.

Hi Tc, sorry to here you're feeling crap today  Bed and purring cat is definitely the way to go! I would also like to know the answer to your question because I have gained nearly two stone (in a year) and my symptoms have started to come back big time! (I use patches to top up Femoston)  Hope you get some rest and feel better soon.

[Ladybt28]

hey Tc,
I use 4 pumps each day which is quite a bit of gel to spread!  I alternate between thighs and arms each day. 2 pumps each side. I never go below my elbow and I rub vigorously to make sure it goes in.  I do the same on my inner thighs, the spread is about te size of an A5 sheet flyer you would get through the post!  Shows how big my thighs are!

Some ladies like to split the oestrogen dose - personally I don't.. I do mine in the morning, when I split it it made no difference to me.
Sounds like you need the Utro vaginally - you wont get those side effects.
I don't have anything for VA but I don't think that the Utro hinders absorption as you push it up inside as high as you can go...the cream is more outside I think?

I am indeed feeling better - one week of testosterone has taken away the weird feeling in my head which I have had for as long as I can remember!  It is hard to describe like someone twanging all the muscles behind your eyes (like your eyes are tired all the time) and putting your brain in a vice inside your head!!!  I also feel like I am actually "present" in the world instead of doing things from a distance.  I also went to be bed before midnight and went to sleep without the aid of anything to help me sleep 3 nights in a row!!  This is so unusual and pretty miraculous, given my history I am more than worried and I didnt really want to say it out loud because I am so afraid it is just temporary and it will all disappear in a flash (flash not a flush!!).  I don't want to be on here in a week or a month saying it has all gone and we are back to the old me!! I am terrified is the placebo effect and that it not a real change.  Ho hum!  just have to see.

Sorry you feel rubbish but early days for you!  I've been working on my regime 7 months now.  Dont squish the cat if you fall asleep!
 

[Ladybt28]

Hi Peacegirl,
Just to put my two penneth in... over 10 years I have had all of the hrts on your list and they were not right for me. I just couldn't make any of them work! Each one brought its own problems or side effects.  I couldn't take femeston at all and provera nearly killed me!  I am not sure which one was the weight gain, but I remember when I started my current regime I dropped a dress size without even dieting and my body changed shape.  I seemed to be carrying loads of weight in my "saddle bags" and had major issues with "back fat" under my bra straps but that disappeared too without me doing anything.  That doesn't really help you but it goes to show that often what happens to our bodies is outside of our control or is controlled by the meds we take.  The meds are supposed to help but sometimes they bring other problems we cant control.

[Peacegirl]

Hi Peacegirl,
Just to put my two penneth in... over 10 years I have had all of the hrts on your list and they were not right for me. I just couldn't make any of them work! Each one brought its own problems or side effects.  I couldn't take femeston at all and provera nearly killed me!  I am not sure which one was the weight gain, but I remember when I started my current regime I dropped a dress size without even dieting and my body changed shape.  I seemed to be carrying loads of weight in my "saddle bags" and had major issues with "back fat" under my bra straps but that disappeared too without me doing anything.  That doesn't really help you but it goes to show that often what happens to our bodies is outside of our control or is controlled by the meds we take.  The meds are supposed to help but sometimes they bring other problems we cant control.

Interesting -thanks for posting that. I am about to have to try some different HRT soon so will give what you've said some thought

[Tc]

Thank you peacegirl. It is an interesting question 're absorption if fat does hinder it then one would think the best place is the forearms or lower legs

 Ladybt. Such great news that the T is working so well for you  many people do say its the missing link. I don't believe in the placebo effect. How many times have you started a new medication with high hopes of success and it doesn't work? Me too. So that's the placebo effect out the window. It's real and you cant "jinx" it by talking about it. Long, long, long may it continue.

As for the gel. Maybe spreading it from shoulder to wrist as I have been doing is too big an area then?

And the Utrogestan. I do insert the estriol inside with an applicator

Don't worry I won't squash the cat. She's had no eastrogen her whole life, bless her

[Hurdity]

Hi Tc - I've never used oestrogen gel but I did read a paper about application area and it is important  NOT to spread it on as large an area as possilbe because it dries before the oestrogen can be absorbed - so yes do follow Ladybt's suggestions as that sounds like much too big an area.

Interestingly Oestrogel gel is the only transdermal estradiol preparation which gives shoulders and upper body as a possible application site. All the patches and Sandrena gel say to apply below the waist on lower part of body. Therefore, personally I would apply it well away from breast area - although I know lots of women apply to shoulders as this is what it says in the instructions!

Re the cat - also make sure if you are applying in the morning to your arms (I know it's winter now!) not to go back to bed and cuddle your cat with bare arms - to avoid transfer in the first hour or so! She might not react well to extra oestrogen!

Placebo effect is about belief - so if you don't believe in it then it won't work! There is a placebo effect to many treatments which is why there are placebo controlled trials - so that scientists at least know which treatments have a chance of working properly! Of course placebo doesn't work for important diseases - because the mind cannot actually cure these or replace hormones....and at least we know from these trials that oestrogen and testosterone replacement actually do work, on top of any belief that they will!

Hurdity x

PS I didn't answer your question about fat - I dont know the answer to that except it's important to be consistent in the area of application - both the szie and the part of the body - to ensure as consistent a dose as possible reaches your body

[Tc]

Thanks hurdity. I have worried about applying it upper arms being near breasts. And agree with you about the instructions especially as the patches mustn't go on upper body.

There seems to be two schools of thought about rubbing it in as well. The instructions say no need to.

Thanks for taking The time to reply. It would seem application is the key to getting the most benefit from the product.

I'm going to start taking the utrogestan vaginally. Not sure if inserting estriol every other night will effect that. And it seems such a hard little pill i wonder if as the estriol  work It's way out  the pill will come with it.

Wonder if I should try alternate 1 night orally 1 night vaginally. Can't put up with the side effects every day.

 Interestingly, the doc saidc she has heard of a vaginal progesterone being used elsewhere But Not yet licenced in UK. I wonder if  utrogestan is what she meant or if there is something new on the horizon.

Thank you for your well thought out and informed replies and don't worry I make sure I don't pick up the cat til my Arms are covered. Poor thing has already ended up with a patch stuck to her fur which I didn't realise had fallen off in the bed!!!!

[Tc]

I've just discovered the utrogestan eastrogel thread.
very interesting.

[SueLW]

Utrogestan vaginally is easy.  Just shove it up as far as you can whilst pulling up your vaginal muscles and the capsule just goes up out of reach 

It is licensed for vaginal insertion on the Continent and yes, it's the same pill as the oral one.  The gel capsule just dissolves. 

The gel is supposed to be absorbed into the fat cells and stored/used from there.  So fat should not be a hinderance, but a benefit.  I use 4 pumps a day at present.  2 in the morning when I get dressed and 2 at night.  I was spreading it on and letting it dry, but I see Dr Louise Newson of Menopause Doctor fame and she was most insistent that I should rub it well in until it has gone, so I am trying that.  My check-up blood test had shown poor uptake of the 4 pumps when letting it dry naturally.  I shall see next time if rubbing it in well has improved things.

[Tc]

Thank you Sue. I will try vwhat you suggest  although  I'm still not sure about using it same time as the internal estriol. Maybe I will try inserting the pill first and then the estriol cream straight after. I've found I have to insert the cream at night or gravity does it's work!

May I ask when you were absorbing poorly had you been applying the gel to your arms or legs? And do you rub it into a small area or spread it out?

Did you start on 4 pumps. I was supposed to start on 2 increase to 3 but I went straight to 3 as my bloods showed low level where I had used the patch for 4 months and not absorbed.

I also think I might try to split the dose if my morning issues don't resolve after using the U vaginally. Do you find a benefit from splitting the dose?

The fat cell thing would make sense. I had thought the gel is absorbed into the bloodstream.

I hope you get a good result next time from your bloods. Do you feel it is making a difference rubbing it in well.

[SueLW]

I think if you put the Utrogestan in first and then the cream it will be fine. Gravity would do its thing on the capsule as well as the cream, so do it when you get into bed.

When I was absorbing badly I was applying to both arms and legs. I felt a sort of rush when putting it on my shoulders, though.  At that time I spread it over a smaller area and let it dry.  Now I just use my thighs and rub it in over a larger area.

I am rather sensitive to hormones and my levels were low despite being on bioidentical HRT for 3 years, so I started on 1 pump for 1 week, then went to 2 pumps for a few weeks then to 3 and finally 4 more recently.

For me, splitting the dose removed late evening/night palpitations.

I do think rubbing it in well is better in a number of ways, but I am getting very pronounced mood swings over the days. Some days I feel terrible, exhausted and miserable. Other days I feel better and have a positive attitude. I am also trying to balance thyroid hormones at the same time, just because life wasn't hard enough, so it can be hard to tell which hormones are causing what problems.

[Tc]

Thanks for taking The time to answer my questions Sue. Very useful to know your experience 

Sorry to hear you've  got the added spanner in the works of thyroid issues. The very thing that can have the same symptoms as meno!!

I hope you get sorted soon especially as the mood swings I think are the worst symptom and I empathise with that

I woke with a hot flush again this morning something I didn't have on the patches. Weird it's not at night but each morning since eastrogel.im not bothered by hot flush per se but it's an indicator something isn't working

Anyway. Pain has been a real issue in the last two days and I'm beginning to wonder if it's related to my surgery. Might do a new post see if anyone has any ideas.

Wish you well sue.and hope today is a good day for you .

[Fairywoods]

Hi TC,  I'm new to HRT age 52 and on my third month of taking Estrogel 2 pumps/Utrogestan 200 for 12 nights orally.  The first month was a bit up and down but ok and I was sleeping much better except for headache every morning after taking Utro.  The second month, night time hot flushes really reduced but I felt like a total ZOMBIE on the Utrogestan, so much so that I only took 9 nights of 200 and then 3 nights 100.  It took me days to get rid of the sedated effect and I still feel rubbish.  Also, I have started to wake at 4am/5am with a start and hot flushes - I am waking less than before HRT but I am feeling worse.  Not sure if I need to increase my Estrogel and for this third month I am thinking of taking the Utrogestan vaginally - do you know if I should take the same dose vaginally as orally, 200?  Thank you for any help and hope it's ok to ask on your post.

[Ladybt28]

I would up your gel by one pump and I confirm the Utrogestan dose is 200mg vaginally.  It is just the same as you would take orally no difference, whilst you are still getting symptoms under control which you haven't done quite yet as you are still waking  with a start in the morning and with flushes.  Glad to hear you are sleeping better though.


You need to keep going with 3 pumps for the 3rd month and 200mg Utrogestan for 12 nights vaginally and see how you go.  it may take until the 4th or 5th month settle.  It too me 6 months to achieve a proper balance.