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[CLKD]

How R U Lazyhazy?

[Ladybt28]

Birdy, why don't you write down, what has been happening and what has not been happening in bullet points for the call whilst you are waiting for her to get back to you?
Write down the time frame as well so that you can relay the issues in context.
Then write down the questions you want to ask.  As you are feeling so bad you need to be prepared to answer her questions and if your memory isn't great, it's even harder when you are put on the spot to remember....you will stress if you think you've missed something I'm sure.       t

Then when the call comes you can just grab your note pad and then it wont catch you on the hop!  One of the things which made me want to sell the business was because I knew that people could just phone at random and ask stuff and I knew I couldn't answer them like I used to (despite having done the job for years) and the very idea of that made me more anxious (as if that were even possible  )

keep taking to us while you are waiting - I hope it's not too long. x

[Hurdity]

Hi again Birdy - I haven't read all the responses in detail but the lozenge of combi products ie Bioidentical Hormone Therapy is not regulated and as such definitely not approved by gynaecologists.   For a start I would be concerned if my oestrogen was reaching those levels ( and if you are post-menopausal?), whether the progesterone is sufficient to protect my womb lining. Also the testosterone - who can say how much you are getting of anything. The other possibility is the progesterone is too high rather than insufficient and hence you are suffering with the side effects. There are lots of us on here who wouldn't dream of taking progesterone every day because it makes us foggy-headed and lethargic.

I really would not be using this treatment at all any more as it's not working for you, and if you are wanting to use a private consultant do go to one recommended by the British Menopause Society.  https://thebms.org.uk/find-a-menopause-specialist/ . You should be able to then get an individualised dose of the separate hormonal components.

I can't remember where you are in menopause but the separate bio = body-identical hormones of oestrogen and progesterone are available on NHS and you should be able to get a referral if they are unable to help or provide you with the products you want to try. The problem is the testosterone which is hit and miss as to whether it is available on NHS.

Taking testosterone exogenously (from outside the body rather than your own internal production) does not necessarily mean it will convert to oestrogen - otherwise there would be no point in taking it as a separate hormone. Certainly with the formerly licensed Intrinsa patches, these had no effect on oestrogen levels from what I recall of the detailed product study (if I'm remembering correctly).

However I would ditch the Gluck and start again - clearly this regime is not suiting you and making you miserbale and anxious - or at least not alleviating these feelings, and may also be causing you other problems re your womb lining. Is it a no-bleed regime and are you post-meno? Have just seen that Ladybt is more or less saying the same thing about the Gluck clinic!

ANyway I do hope you are feeling a bit better now. Try not to worry but take steps to change your HRT regime and go to someone different and take it from there. please ask if we can help any more about this too.

Hurdity x 

[Sgtvhilts]

I am probably going to go contrary to all popular opinion, but here goes.
I was born anxious, got significantly worse, no clear thought, anxious about everything. I started with ssri's didn't really help that much, then added sequi hrt- omg- the fog cleared with 3 ***** days-. I couldn't believe it. A year in still clear, odd annoying symptoms still hanging around, but memory and fog- resolved. I'm not saying I am right, but I was at the point where I would literally tried anything.
Never say never, give it a whirl and see what happens. Yes it might not work, but how will you know unless you try.
I am not ‘zoned out' on this lot at all. People say that AD are not for anxiety- some most definitely are. I'd rather take an Ssri, than a benzo
Life is for living. Don't rule anything out.

[Ladybt28]

The other possibility is the progesterone is too high rather than insufficient and hence you are suffering with the side effects. There are lots of us on here who wouldn't dream of taking progesterone every day because it makes us foggy-headed and lethargic.

I have to say that I would agree with Hurdity about progesterone - one type taken everyday which I tried nearly drove me insane Birdy - there is a phase we use here in Northern Ireland "I was beyond myself"!  My posts are listed as "screaming inside"  I was pretty much where you are.  Some of us just can't take it everyday despite what any consultant would say "that we should be able to".  It makes me very depressed.  Luckily as I said I have binned my fogginess and memory problems and now with my very low dose testosterone - and I dont take that every day either I have made myself "present" in the world.

I would also agree with her that it may well be wiser to have them all separately so you can monitor how you react to certain levels of each one rather than having them all combined and having no way of knowing which bit is doing what.

Anyway, the crux of the problem is whatever it is its not right! You must do what you think is best, all I can say is I did exactly what I was told to do by ladies on this forum and I changed my treatment accordingly to what I had learnt.  To be honest you cannot get worse than you are now, something else will be the same or different and in that way forward progress can be made!  I was where you are in August 18 and am so much better so there is hope and Sgtvhilts is also much better and I know she has scouted about the forum and posted too.

There is hope Birdy honestly - I hope that you get your call tomorrow and have a better idea of what you need to do.  Trust your gut, (hard when your brain is scrambled and you have so little confidence it's hard remember your own name when asked! ) don't just put blind faith in the experts because they don't live with the consequences of their suggestions!

I'm sure I can speak for the other ladies  but we will be thinking about you tomorrow - it will get sorted keep the faith! xx

[Shadyglade]

I have taken ADs twice, in the past, but for only a few months each time. They did what they were supposed to but as soon as I felt better I came off them.

I worry about taking any medication long term as who knows what effect they will have on our body chemistry. If you have any illness where long term meds are vital then fair enough. However, ADs for me were a temporary med until I could cope without. That is one reason why HRT has been off the cards for me. The idea of taking something for years is not in my makeup.

[CLKD]

It's the brain fog that is bothersome, doing things but not being able to remember! but that's been me for years++.  I have a few coping skills as long as I remember to put them into place.

Because organic depression already made me unable to function at any level, once I found the 'right' AD I began to recover.  It took several types though  and we were down to the last one available by the time one began to ease symptoms  .  The body needs support in so many ways and we can forget about the brain up there until it begins to shut down or make itself noticed by becoming 'different'. 

Shadyglade - if you were a diabetic 

Hope that you get on OK Birdy!

[Shadyglade]

It's the brain fog that is bothersome, doing things but not being able to remember! but that's been me for years++.  I have a few coping skills as long as I remember to put them into place.

Because organic depression already made me unable to function at any level, once I found the 'right' AD I began to recover.  It took several types though  and we were down to the last one available by the time one began to ease symptoms  .  The body needs support in so many ways and we can forget about the brain up there until it begins to shut down or make itself noticed by becoming 'different'. 

Shadyglade - if you were a diabetic 

Hope that you get on OK Birdy!

CLKD if you read my post I did say 'if you have an illness where long term meds are VITAL that's fine' 

[Shadyglade]

I went through meno very early. I think it was because I was very stressed at the time and I started bleeding continuously. I was given a Mirena Coil to stop the bleeding. I was 41. When I was 43, I had the coil removed because I felt really angry and anxious a lot. I never had a period again.
So I must have gone through meno between 41 and 43.
No one has ever explained why this happened so early but I think I have worked out why. It's called the pregnenalone steal. Basically, the master hormone, pregnenolone, stopped my progesterone production to make more cortisol to get me through the stress.
And I never recovered.
Which means I have suffered high cortisol many times and it is detrimental to health, and over time can lead to many serious health issues including dementia. I am more foggy headed today. I slept from 11.30 till about 6.

I think you have proved my point Birdy. The meds you were given have messed you up. Everything comes with side effects, some long lasting. Take what you need but not what you don't is my mantra. Unfortunately the patient notes which come with drugs are often incomplete or out of date. Plus some people don't even bother to read them.

[Ladybt28]

If we are post meno, and still have our ovaries, do we need progesterone every day as part of our HRT?

The answer to your question Birdy is that if we have a womb then we need progesterone to ensure that the lining sheds and there is no long term build up if you are using oestrogen. Which is why it is in your lozenge.  But it is not necessary to take it every day.  There are 2 methods (1) taking everyday is called a continuous cycle and the idea is to balance the amount of oestrogen against the amount of progesterone to achieve a "no bleed" scenario. There is no bleed because the lining does not build enough to bleed.  (2) Taking it for a number of days only during a cycle which when you stop the progesterone after the number of days causes the lining to shed and you get a bleed.  A Mirena coil works differently to progesterone taken orally or the Utrogestan taken vaginally.

Option (1) can be hard to achieve the balance and those of use who react quite badly to progesterone - (how do you know? so if you had bad PMT in the second phase of you period cycle when you had them is  a good indicator) or you have felt very down when you take the progesterone part of hrt if you have ever had it separately - then it is not possible for us to take it on a continuous regime.  A Mirena dispenses a very low dose inside the cervix - you have to try one to see if you can tolerate it - there is no other way. Some can tolerate it some can't it still gives them progesterone side effects  so (2) is the option we have to go for if we cant do progesterone continuously and we have to put up with a bleed. The number of days varies as to how intolerant you are and what your consultant's views on "shortened cycle" is.

Hope that answers it for you and I haven't confused?
Glad you slept better  - try thinking about how you were when you were having periods and how your cycles went then?

[Shadyglade]

I was highlighting how the pregnenolone messed you up. Basically, that what we take can do more harm than good.

[Shadyglade]

Ah, now I understand.

Do you think you might be over thinking things Birdy. Perhaps start from where you are now and what you need now.

Glad you are sleeping better.

[Ladybt28]

Shadyglade - whatever I think about medication generally and whether taking it long term is a good idea or not - to be honest my hrt has given me back a life I have not had for over 30 years!  Turns out I always had hormonal problems that went off the scale at meno. Its not an "illness" in the medical books or is it considered so in the world in general, but some of us are so bad with our symptoms, which do not go away, as they do in some ladies when we are post meno that we have no choice BUT to take it and continue to take it well past post meno.  If things had continued the way they were, it is very probable that I would not be writing this today.

I am extremely jealous of those who can stop their hrt or do not need it to conduct their everyday lives - but those of us who do need it to even function should never feel guilty or worried that we DO have to take probably for a very long time!  Personally I know I would be dead without it.  It's a choice but why suffer when you can choose to live?

[Shadyglade]

Shadyglade - whatever I think about medication generally and whether taking it long term is a good idea or not - to be honest my hrt has given me back a life I have not had for over 30 years!  Turns out I always had hormonal problems that went off the scale at meno. Its not an "illness" in the medical books or is it considered so in the world in general, but some of us are so bad with our symptoms, which do not go away, as they do in some ladies when we are post meno that we have no choice BUT to take it and continue to take it well past post meno.  If things had continued the way they were, it is very probable that I would not be writing this today.

I am extremely jealous of those who can stop their hrt or do not need it to conduct their everyday lives - but those of us who do need it to even function should never feel guilty or worried that we DO have to take probably for a very long time!  Personally I know I would be dead without it.  It's a choice but why suffer when you can choose to live?

That's fine. What ever suits you for the best. I was just saying what suits me.

[CLKD]

Post menstrual Syndrome happens in the 10-14 days prior to a bleed.  Symptoms stop immediately the period begins.  Have a look-see at the NAPS site?