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[Tc]

Suzysunday. Good to know you have that support. For me I thinks it's a mixture of the hormone probs and just feeling not well with symptoms that makes me so miserable and moody. A friend said 'I don't know why you're dwelling on it so much, just get on with life.". I said don't you think I would if I felt well I wouldn't be looking for answers. DO some ppl think we WANT to feel like this.
Wishing you all the best and sorry your problems weren't addressed soonerx

[EleanorB]

Hey all, thanks for your comments.

Katejo,

I totally agree - how the hell are you supposed to know if it's VA or a UTI? I think that's what worries me most about the article. It suggests that so many UTIs may be going undiagnosed, so am I desperately plying myself with vagifem when in fact it's a UTI. Obviously the situation is complicated by the fact that UTIs are more likely to happen if you're peri or menopausal. I am scared I am treating VA when I should be treating a UTI. And I just want rid of this awful, debilitating, depressing symptom. My young male GP (only one I could get in to see) suggested he wait a month before referring me to urogynaecology (sp?) to see how the vagifem goes. I wanted to say alright for you, you're not the one who feels like you need to urinate CONSTANTLY. I said refer now, it takes forever to get in anyway! I think another reason I am confused is because in terms of my vagina, the VA symptoms aren't that severe at all, slight dryness, itching sometimes but ok, does it make sense that my bladder would go so bananas therefore? Please do send me the link.

I don't think the vagifem is causing side effects. That said who knows, maybe, ironically, I am treating the UTI type symptoms with vagifem and it IS making it worse. I don't think so, if I use them every day it seems to make the UTI type symptoms almost bearable and I haven't noticed any other side effects. Sometimes the symptoms ease up for a few hours and I think I'm done with it, then it's back. 

TC and Suzy - I understand your misery re  wanting to feel like yourself again. I long for that in so many respects since hitting meno. If I had a time machine I'd go back and REALLY, REALLY enjoy my young, hot flush free, sharp brained,  memory in tact, normal bladdered body. The things I took for granted.

TC, the single thing is so depressing as I just can't fathom how I could get in to a sexual relationship with someone now.  At the moment, if I had sex it's pretty much guaranteed the symptoms will escalate and I'd be unable to have sex again shortly ish after, which, at the beginning of a relationship, is fairly likely. I really don't relish the highly sexy(not) prospect of immediately relaying my bladder issues to a new partner.  It's not that I'm particularly prudish or shy around things, it's just really, who wants to talk about their bladder at the beginning of something? I don't know where you are in this whole trajectory, but seeing as I'm being brutally honest, in the spirit of being helpful,  re your loss of sensation. At the beginning of peri, having always had really sensitive nipples,  they lost almost all sensation. I was devastated. And then eventually it came back. Not quite to the level it was before, but on good days it is. So there is hope. Oh well, at least I can have a laugh to myself re talking about my nipples on the internet. I never saw that coming.

MaryJane thanks for your comments. It's because of your and your daughter's book (excuse me if I am getting this wrong and it's not your daughter who wrote the book! Total meno brain) that I know to moisturise my vagina every day.  The info you have got out there is invaluable.

[Katejo]

Hey all, thanks for your comments.

Katejo,

I totally agree - how the hell are you supposed to know if it's VA or a UTI? I think that's what worries me most about the article. It suggests that so many UTIs may be going undiagnosed, so am I desperately plying myself with vagifem when in fact it's a UTI. Obviously the situation is complicated by the fact that UTIs are more likely to happen if you're peri or menopausal. I am scared I am treating VA when I should be treating a UTI. And I just want rid of this awful, debilitating, depressing symptom. My young male GP (only one I could get in to see) suggested he wait a month before referring me to urogynaecology (sp?) to see how the vagifem goes. I wanted to say alright for you, you're not the one who feels like you need to urinate CONSTANTLY. I said refer now, it takes forever to get in anyway! I think another reason I am confused is because in terms of my vagina, the VA symptoms aren't that severe at all, slight dryness, itching sometimes but ok, does it make sense that my bladder would go so bananas therefore? Please do send me the link.

I don't think the vagifem is causing side effects. That said who knows, maybe, ironically, I am treating the UTI type symptoms with vagifem and it IS making it worse. I don't think so, if I use them every day it seems to make the UTI type symptoms almost bearable and I haven't noticed any other side effects. Sometimes the symptoms ease up for a few hours and I think I'm done with it, then it's back. 

TC and Suzy - I understand your misery re  wanting to feel like yourself again. I long for that in so many respects since hitting meno. If I had a time machine I'd go back and REALLY, REALLY enjoy my young, hot flush free, sharp brained,  memory in tact, normal bladdered body. The things I took for granted.

TC, the single thing is so depressing as I just can't fathom how I could get in to a sexual relationship with someone now.  At the moment, if I had sex it's pretty much guaranteed the symptoms will escalate and I'd be unable to have sex again shortly ish after, which, at the beginning of a relationship, is fairly likely. I really don't relish the highly sexy(not) prospect of immediately relaying my bladder issues to a new partner.  It's not that I'm particularly prudish or shy around things, it's just really, who wants to talk about their bladder at the beginning of something? I don't know where you are in this whole trajectory, but seeing as I'm being brutally honest, in the spirit of being helpful,  re your loss of sensation. At the beginning of peri, having always had really sensitive nipples, which were a major erogenous zone for me, they lost almost all sensation. I was devastated. And then eventually it came back. Not quite to the level it was before, but on good days it is. So there is hope. Oh well, At least I can have a laugh to myself re talking about my nipples on the internet. I never saw that coming.

MaryJane thanks for your comments. It's because of your and your daughter's book (excuse me if I am getting this wrong and it's not your daughter who wrote the book! Total meno brain) that I know to moisturise my vagina every day.  The info you have got out there is invaluable.

Hi Eleanor B   I started using Vagifem to see if it would reduce my UTI's by restoring my oestrogen level to improve the condition of my vaginal tissue. I only started with it in mid September so need to use it much longer to see if I get this benefit. however I have already had a benefit which I hadn't expected. Since the summer, i have had an aching hip and irritation in my groin (left side only and my internal irritation is also on the left side), I hadn't associated this with my UTI's so it was an unexpected benefit. I am about to reply to someone on the FB page who has described a similar experience.    Here is a link to the thesis. Have a look particularly at section 1 (p. 34)  http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1364560/4/1364560_Thesis%2031012_eversion.pdf

[EleanorB]

Katejo,

Thanks for the link, will have a read. I wonder if I need to be more patient with the vagifem. I have been on it a few months but not consistently enough previously, I think, as the bladder issues had eased up so was forgetting and only using twice a week.

I need to find that FB group if it's the VA one you mean. Had a quick look previously but didn't find it, will look again.

[Maryjane]

I admin the FB group for VA can be a pain for some to find it seems . I also know a lot about the inadequacies of UTI testing as do some of the ladies in my group.

There are a handful of specialists in the U.K. & worldwide who know it's a HUGE problem it's a bit like Pandora's box we just have to wait for treatment to catch up with knowledge.

However local oestrogen/ HRT does help many.

My group is called vaginal atrophy it's a closed group with about 880 ladies in it. It's a green background with a white silhouette of a lady.

[Katejo]

Katejo,

Thanks for the link, will have a read. I wonder if I need to be more patient with the vagifem. I have been on it a few months but not consistently enough previously, I think, as the bladder issues had eased up so was forgetting and only using twice a week.

I need to find that FB group if it's the VA one you mean. Had a quick look previously but didn't find it, will look again.

  Yes I did mean the FB VA group. There are some more articles by the same consultant available here. I haven't explored these yet but they are on similar issues. She was very helpful when I saw but she still thought that one shouldn't take Vagifem daily for more than 1 month before reducing the frequency. That surprised me.   https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rajvinder_Khasriya

It is interesting that you have already taken Vagifem for a few months. I am still under 3 months, particularly as I haven't been able to use it daily for most of that time.

[Maryjane]

I simply don't understand the fuss about only being able to use vagifem: ovestin 2 Xs a week only by some experts.

2 x vagifem a week is the equivalent of ONE HRT pill a year, so work the maths out for more it's atill minimal.

Also the NICE guidelines say we can stay on HRT for life basically so what is the fuss ? Give me vagifem everyday over antibiotics stop/ start anyday.

HRT / local oestrogen seems to be constantly picked at every drug we take has a potential side effect they are given out daily like sweets.

If we lived in Europe we would buy our HRT & local oestrogen over the counter it would be DIY.

So many ladies use local oestrogen 5/7 days a week, and anyway it can be bought on line via a chemist so 🤷‍♀️.

I have a letter from a very top specialist saying I can use vagifem everyday & ovestin externally and it says this is still a very small amount of oestrogen.

Hormones are everywhere in plastic, food, water etc.

[CLKD]

Getting into the water courses because of The Pill apparently  .

I will remind those that may be new to this Thread:
 
Some ladies require the use of particularly Vagifem nightly, every night ........ despite what the 'experts' [how I HATE that word] tell us.  Because it is delivered in a much smaller dose than originally designed: 10 instead of 20 but I don't what the measurement is.  Ladies also find that using 'sylc' or 'yes' products often helps keep the whole area supple, less dry and therefore unlikely to itch or be sore.  Add to that a pain relief [Nurofen helps me], symptoms can be kept background. 

Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type symptoms *really* well

[needed an excuse to use that one ;-) ]. A urine sample has to be sent to a lab to see if it grows bacteria to be treated with the correct anti-biotic.  ABs will ease symptoms but if these symptoms continue, the vaginal atrophy must be considered.  With appropriate treatment and it would be nice to think that GPs would trust ladies more.  By using personally and going back to explain what each lady requires should be enough.  Quality of Life seems to be forgotten when GPs start quoting risks  and 'what we ought to be doing' .   I am SO lucky, my GP has been great.

Earlier this week I began with an 'attack' of atrophy: heavy bladder region, feeling nauseated, shivery when I peed, need to pee more often and that family feeling of needing treatment  .  So mid-afternoon I put Ovestin up there and another load at 10.30 after my bath.  Added to that Nerofen every 3 hours settled the symptoms. 

[suzysunday]

It is worrying for some women if they ar told not to use local hrt more often. I don't know why there can't be consensus about this  with gp/gynaecologist.

[CLKD]

Sadly it's NICE Guidelines as well as what is written in the leaflet in the box  - which is why we need to be proactive?  After all, we try different foods/drinks through out life and make decisions.  I tend to treat my more recent health issues likewise.  Try it, use it, ditch it ........ 

[Katejo]

Getting into the water courses because of The Pill apparently  .

I will repeat:
 
Some ladies require the use of particularly Vagifem nightly, every night ........ despite what the 'experts' [how I HATE that word] tell us.  Because it is delivered in a much smaller dose than originally designed: 10 instead of 20 but I don't what the measurement is.  Ladies also find that using 'sylc' or 'yes' products often helps keep the whole area supple, less dry and therefore unlikely to itch or be sore.  Add to that a pain relief [Nurofen helps me], symptoms can be kept background. 

Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type symptoms *really* well

[needed an excuse to use that one ;-) ]. A urine sample has to be sent to a lab to see if it grows bacteria to be treated with the correct anti-biotic.  ABs will ease symptoms but if these symptoms continue, the vaginal atrophy must be considered.  With appropriate treatment and it would be nice to think that GPs would trust ladies more.  By using personally and going back to explain what each lady requires should be enough.  Quality of Life seems to be forgotten when GPs start quoting risks  and 'what we ought to be doing' .   I am SO lucky, my GP has been great.

Earlier this week I began with an 'attack' of atrophy: heavy bladder region, feeling nauseated, shivery when I peed, need to pee more often and that family feeling of needing treatment  .  So mid-afternoon I put Ovestin up there and another load at 10.30 after my bath.  Added to that Nerofen every 3 hours settled the symptoms.

It is 10 microgram compared to the previous 25.

[CLKD]

   so much.  That's sums and I don't do sums 

[Katejo]

Katejo,

Thanks for the link, will have a read. I wonder if I need to be more patient with the vagifem. I have been on it a few months but not consistently enough previously, I think, as the bladder issues had eased up so was forgetting and only using twice a week.

I need to find that FB group if it's the VA one you mean. Had a quick look previously but didn't find it, will look again.

Eleanor B. You might like to look at this link. There is a very useful tip about how you should apply Vagifem. It has just been posted on the  FB page and several people have commented on it. i asked for the original source. https://suecroftphysiotherapistblog.com/2017/05/17/update-on-local-oestrogen-use/

[suzysunday]

What is an "anterior wall" please.  A gp I spoke to who deals with the hrt where I go, advised to use the cream high up with the applicator. Worried and confused again.

[suzysunday]

Not too keen on using my finger, but is that what I should be doing?