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[Jari]

I'm just curious to know exactly how this hormone gel is made. It says it's made up of a man made form of the female hormone estrogen? Does anyone know exactly how it is obtained and what exactly it is? I can't find any information online. It seems quite secret. Is it plant based or does is it animal hormones?

[EnglishRose]

Plant based

Google is your friend,,,or enemy.. depends if you suffer from health anxiety !
I am using this gel because it's body identical (not synthetic) I believe it's made from soy but I could be wrong.

Here's a link

https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/a7261/oestrogel-estradiol/

[suzysunday]

Just as an additional question regarding the hrt Tibolone.  I read on another site it contains petrol and/or by products from the oil refinery industry.  Surely this can't be true?

[Emma]

The active substance is tibolone.

The other ingredients are potato starch, lactose monohydrate, ascorbyl palmitate and magnesium stearate.

https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1597/pil

[Conolly]

Hello Jari,


Your question is very interesting. As you will see in this article (I don't expect you to understand the whole article, very techy, but the historical description is quite interesting) body-identical estradiol (oestrogen) and other steroids are produced nowadays from plant sources (wild Mexican yam and soya) but there are a lot of other chemical reactions needed to obtain the final product, some of them are patented. That's why it's not easily found on Google (unless you go to Google patents!)


http://medjchem.com/images/stories/V3N2/mjcthiemann.pdf


Conolly X

[Ladybt28]

The post that relates to the Louise Newsom conference with cancer blokey (sorry cant think of the thread name)- it was the one that the ladies put up to counter the Menopause program on BBC1 mentions in it the types of oestrogen that the body produces, I think there are 4 kinds.  Oestrodiol gel is made by synthecising it from a combo of yams soy and a load of other stuff so it behaves like our own oestrogen and is the newer oestrogen to use.

Premarin is made from pregnant mares urine hence pre mar in and that is an old one but works perfectly well for some.  I've had in the past.

[Conolly]

Jari,

Actually most drugs are derived from complex 'concoctions' and that's why we should only take drugs if absolutely necessary. Not because of the chemistry per se, which is a natural process, but because of quality control issues, which is a human process, subjected to errors, economic and political agendas. If you search for 'China' in that article you will see that many alternative synthetic procedures were developed because that country had the yam product (diosgenin) patented. It's a huge market involving billions of dollars.

Conolly X

[Hurdity]

Hi English Rose. I know it does seem to be that it is not easy to find out. All I can find so far is that synthetic HRT is made from a pregnant mules urine (CEE) and bio identical man made are made from soy, which explains why I've found by going the natural path is working. X

Hi there - it is important to recognise the difference in definitions and what they all mean ie "natural" and "synthetic".

Many people say that Premarin (CEE) is NATURAL rather than SYNTHETIC because the oestrogen preparation is EXTRACTED and purified from pregnant mare's urine rather than SYNTHESISED from raw ingredients. However most of the oestrogens in it are not the same as those found in the human body (ESTRADIOL).

Estradiol is the name given to our dominant oestrogen and the most widespread biologically active one - produced by the ovaries and which declines at menopause. Any HRT product containing estradiol is therefore BIO-IDENTICAL or BODY-IDENTICAL ie structurally identical to the estradiol produced in our own bodies. Most HRT types now contain estradiol - there are just a few which contain the conjugated equine oestrogens  - and these products' names begin with PRE-.

All estradiol used in HRT is SYNTHETIC in that it has been synthesised from raw ingredients - in this case soy or yam, and as Connolly says there are several steps that need to be taken to convert the raw ingredient to estradiol.

That's quite a concoction to be putting in our bodies. No wonder I had such awful side effects from hrt.

Estradiol is the active ingredient in estrogen gels. Most of the other ingredients are what makes it work and to help the estradiol absorb. People could be allergic to any of these ingredients. For oestrogel/oestrodose the list of additional ingredients (fillers or excipients) is here (scroll down to section 6): https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/19898/SPC#POSOLOGY and for Sandrena gel here: https://www.medicines.org.uk/EMC/medicine/1392/SPC/Sandrena+1.0+mg+gel/ - also section 6. You will see that actually oestrogel contains very few ingredients which is probably what makes it so widely tolerated. Anything used transdermally - the fillers have far less effect on the body than stuff taken orally which has to go through the digestion and liver.

Re concoctions in our bodies - if you eat any processed food of any sort or take any medication or supplements - then look at the ingredients list - you are already putting concoctions into your body - not sure if vitamin supplements for example are any more natural than HRT!

Edit: also having looked at the link, I'm not sure what concoction you are referring to as the paper was not discussing components of HRT  . It was talking about the biochemical steps involved in making all sorts of different steroids. Rest assured that what is going into or onto your body as part of HRT- is contained in the list of ingredients for that product and will be as pure as it can be - if made in EU at least!

Hurdity x

[EnglishRose]

Thanks ladies. All very interesting. Oestradiol had such a horrible effect on me and I'm not really surprised now. I much prefer the natural route. Adjusting diet and lifestyle to get the balance right. X

What effects?
I ask bc I'm on a month now and the last week has been physically and mentally the hardest. I initially was ok on it, no side effects so good start but I started a bleed and the 4 days leading up to that AND the 4 days I've been  bleeding has increased my depression and new menopause physical symptoms by 10.
I'm still plodding but I'm sinking in terms of will power as it feels counterintuitive to be feeling sicker the longer your using it. And I do weigh up the fact my own hormones are fluctuating in the background but never in my life have I been so sick and depressed but I SO want it to work..
I was on Everol patches for a short while no issues with them but only took for a week,
If things don't get better or at least ease up after my bleed.., I'm going to come off and see if I feel better.

[Hurdity]

Jari - maybe the gel just didn't suit you - nothing to do with any of the links etc on this thread or how its made.....if your flushes have come back and you decide you want to have another try - why not the patches instead? Women seem to love or hate the gel and I think it depends on how well it is absroebd. I've no idea how it feels to have a sudden huge increase in estradiol levels from external application - but it could have been too much too soon?

Great that you are feeling better and the diet/lifestyle measures are fantastic for women to adopt at this stage of life!

Hurdity x