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[EleanorB]

Hello all,

Apologies this is my second post in 48 hours. I tried oestrogel about a month ago for 3 days. It was soon after a flu jab so when I got crashing fatigue and increased tinnitus I stopped unaware what was causing what.

I started oestrogen again this morning. One pump of unopposed oestrogel. Within two hours the crashing fatigue started again. It is brutal and fatigue has not been a previous meno symptom at all, despite chronic menopausal insomnia. It is totally disabling and have been in bed all day, feels like anaesthetic, was out and could barely walk ten minutes home. It's clear it's the oestrogel.

I desperately need hrt for other meno symptoms. I have been unable to work for months. Do I push through? Could this fatigue side effect get better? Has anyone else experienced this, it is listed as a side effect. It is reminiscent of chronic fatigue tiredness which I suffered from in my twenties but totally recovered from, am now 50. I am meant to be trying it for 3 months. At this level it would mean 3 months bed bound. I seem to lurch from one meno conundrum to another at the mo. Sorry having a very challenging week with all this.

[Hurdity]

Hi EleanorB

Sorry to hear about this - I'm not familiar with fatigue as a side effect of oestrogen as it is supposed to have the opposite effect - being energising and mood uplifting, with progesterone being the sedative most responsible for tiredness and fatigue. I've just looked at the product info and fatigue is not listed where I was looking so I am puzzled. However maybe applied exogenously (from outside the body) can have this effect if the dose is increased rapidly very quickly - and perhaps something else also going on in your body that is contributing to this extreme reaction - which must be a right pain?!

Depending where you are in menopause and what your natural periods are doing - then maybe try a patch instead and start low and slow - this wouldn't give you such a hit as the gel which some women seem to absorb very rapidly and effectively?

It really shouldn't have a debilitating effect as making you stay in bed so something must be wrong ....

Have you had your thyroid function testsed and is your diet good overall - lots of fresh fruit and veg and unprocessed foods? Plenty of iron rich foods?

Hurdity x

[EleanorB]

Hi Hurdity,

Thanks for your reply. My thyroid is normal, my diet very healthy , lots of veg, salad, wholemeal everything, meno has forced my to avoid sugar although with the sweetest tooth around the odd piece of cake happens

I know, it's odd, I am over peri, four months into menopause. I saw fatigue listed on a couple of estrogel side effect info sites online. Might try a few more days then contact my gynaecologist if it's the same although that's easier said than done. Have you a suggestion for an alternative oestrogen only option?

Thanks, E.

[Hurdity]

I'm a patch gal myself - so if you think it's the oestrogel causing this then as i said below maybe a patch would be worth trying. I use estradot and they start at 25 mcg. What do you plan to use for the progestogen part or have you a Mirena/no womb?

We all like the odd piece of cake even while on a good diet generally - it's important therapy!

Hurdity x

[EleanorB]

Hi,

I have been given a free pass without oestrogen for 3 months by my gynae as my first attempt with a combined patch was a disaster - migraine/violent agitation, heavy return of period. We are seeing how I do with estrogen then looking at mirena. She did mumble about the possibility of just having very frequent scans to avoid progesterone, I have endo so have to be extra cautious, (although she is an endo specialist so feel in safe hands) but also severe migraine which could make progesterone even in a mirena a big problem

As you can see - meno has posed a few challenges. Right now I would pay big money to be 35 again.

[Conolly]

Hello EleanorB,


I have tried the patches for 3 months and they have made no difference regarding fatigue. I also had the flu prior to that, so maybe your fatigue is post-viral? I don't think oestrogen (gel or patch) would make any difference to that sort of fatigue.


May I ask you what gel are you on? Oestrogel or Oestrodose relabelled as Oestrogel?


Conolly X

[EleanorB]

Hi Connolly and jari,

Connolly, it isn't post viral. I had a flu jab a month ago, But it didn't give me flu symptoms. The fatigue hit last time I used oestrogel, stopped when I stopped it, then started a month ish later when I started it again. Exactly the same fatigue. I've had no meno related fatigue other than going to bed early due to insomnia.

Jari, funny you should mention B-12, I was deficient a year ago, had five weeks of every other day injections more recently as my gp surgery didn't handle it properly. I am going to see a haematologist whe specialises in B-12 because I want to know if it could still be an issue and causing some of my meno like symptoms. The worst problems for me are brainfog, memory issues and bladder symptoms. I get hot flushes but currently manageable. I actually wonder if hrt could deplete B-12 hence the fatigue. So rather than being a side effect per second it is, rather, exacerbating another issue.

[Conolly]

Thank you for the explanation. I missed the jab part 😂


I had the crushing fatigue until recently and my B12 levels have always been high because I'm vegetarian and take sublingual tabs. I had insomnia back then but now I'm sleeping for England. I think it's hormonal but not just ovaries related, maybe adrenals as well. I also have migraines so there could be a link there.


Maybe what you need is progesterone.


Conolly X

[EleanorB]

Conolly, It could be migraine related - I have experienced a few hours of fatigue as a prodrome previously. It's possible the sudden influx of oestrogen has triggered migraine activity. Why do you say maybe I need progesterone?

Jari,

Yes, memory and brain fog are the main reasons, along with  urogenital symptoms. I use vagifem for the latter, it has helped but not solved the issue. The first two things are making me feel desperate, the latter made me think enough is enough as it can't improve on its own with time. I have, like you, i'm sure, tried to get all the info I can on memory loss. My neurologist for migraine, to try and put my mind at rest, sent me to a neuro for memory. She did tests, sent me for an mri and said it's not presenting as dementia. I find My biggest issue is what's called destination memory- remembering who I have told what, it's profoundly bad. I am better at remembering facts and what I have been told. There is no doubt my chronic insomnia since meno is a factor, migraine may also be - migraine can cause memory loss, although I never had that before meno.  My migraine issues have increased with meno. I am hoping the insomnia might be helped by estrogen replacement which in turn will help the memory. The only other thing that seems to impact my memory for the worse is sugar and carbs that turn to sugar.

I find every other aspect of meno copable with but the memory issues are the most distressing thing I have ever experienced. That, with the brain fog,  are stopping  me from working. Although female friends my age experience memory issues too, it is nothing like on the scale I am.

What has been your memory/ brainfog experience? Where are u in peri or meno and when did the memory/ brainfog stuff hit? Anecdotal evidence online seems to suggest starflower oil is helpful.

[Conolly]

Hello EleanorB,


Maybe your progesterone levels are very low and when oestrogen spikes it can trigger migraines, and maybe the fatigue is part of the prodromal phase as you have suggested. It's just a thought. Have you ever tried progesterone cream?


Conolly X

[Kb21]

Hi Eleanor,

When I tried patches, I became really spaced out, a bit like I was walking through mud physically and mentally and the GP told me to take it off.

I'm trying the gel now, but I'm starting with a really small amount. The first couple of days my anxiety was much better and my insomnia. About day 5
I became exhausted and had a funny tummy, so I'm not sure if I have bug or is the oestrogen.

I've now had 2 bad nights of sleep again, so feel dreadful...

It's a bloody minefield.