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[Dandelion]

Hope someone can help me. Sorry for long post.
In late 2016 i was addicted to 75mg valium which is cross tolerant to progesterone, (now on 34mgs valium). I was perimenopausal then, and was taking evorel 100mcg oestrogen patch and cyclical 200mcg micronised progesterone for 12 days a month, and I was 50yrs old and at the time.
On the days I wasnt taking the prog, my mental stability went right downhill to the point of meltdowns, (undiagnosed asperger's and ADHD-another story) so get violent meltdowns which are stress related.
As the metabolites of prog act on GABA like valium,
to keep my GABA stable without my doctors consent, I changed my 12 day cyclical micronised progesterone use from 200mg 12 days a month to 100mg daily and reduced the oestrogen patch to 75mcg to reduce the chance of endometrial cancer as daily progesterone meant no withdrawal bleed that I Was getting on the cyclical.
I had two bleeds one month apart in late 2016, then nothing until June and in june I started getting small amounts of watery pink discharge and darkk brown discharge randomly, and am still getting it, and these are symptoms of endometrial cancer as I had no bleed from end of 2016 until june this year when these smalll amounts of discharge appeared at random times.
I know that my doctor will take the progesterone off me and change it and I am really worried about how my mental state will be, as it is cross tolerant to valium, and also my physical health, adrenal crash.
I have spoken to my psychatric nurse who told me to ring my doctor tomorrow, as i havent had the courage to ring him/her since the bleeds started.
I live alone in a block of flats and am worried that I am going to run amok.
I suffer from meltdowns as I am undiagnosed asperger's/ADHD and had fits of rage all my life and all the other sypmtoms of adhd and aspergers, and cannot get tested until I am drug free.
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, I cant stay on the daily prog cos of cancer, I can't come off it cos of adrenal crash and mental breakdown and running amok and am worried as I have no one who can watch over me as my family live 300 miles away and i am housebound and see no one, people i know have thier own problems.
I am worried I will be incpacitated as I live on 3rd storey with no lifts, incpacitated as prog withdrawwl is like big benzo cut doctors dont put you on continuous prog/oestrogen until age 54 in britain, also, even on continuous hrt, there is still a 3 day prog break for withdrawal bleed, to keep womb lining thin.
I am scared I am going to end up in prison if I go psychotic as you hear of these people in the news going psychotic and turning violent and trashing the place.
My psych nurse is nice but doesnt understand the benzo/progesterone/adrenal thing and neither does my GP.
If I do have cancer I will have to have a hysterectomy, and they wont let me take progesterone on the NHS in this country and I cannot buy it online.
I am terrified but I promised my psych nurse i would make an appointment with my doctor and my psych nurse is going to ring me tomorow.
My doctor will not understand the link between benzo/progesterone/adrenal and neither will the gynaecologist they will refer me to.
I have googled my particular discharge and it points to cancer of the womb lining, pink watery and dark brown.
Im 52 now, and am not catastophising, and progeseterone withdrawals take a while to manifest, so if I run amok with psychosis or get adrenal crash, no medics will know what is wrong with me.
I also have a prolapse of the bladder, which i have been hiding from the doctor, I cant empty my bladder, stop uti's by drinking loads of water, and my vagina has a bulge in it.
Ive written a sheet of info about all of this down for my doctor but am scared stiff, that disaster of some sort is imminent.
HELP pls?
I'm at my wits end. I know ive been stupid but not had the guts to go see doctor cos prog removal will be like an enormous valium cut which could send me over the edge.
thanks for reading

[EnglishRose]

Hope someone can help me. Sorry for long post.
In late 2016 i was addicted to 75mg valium which is cross tolerant to progesterone, (now on 34mgs valium). I was perimenopausal then, and was taking evorel 100mcg oestrogen patch and cyclical 200mcg micronised progesterone for 12 days a month, and I was 50yrs old and at the time.
On the days I wasnt taking the prog, my mental stability went right downhill to the point of meltdowns, (undiagnosed asperger's and ADHD-another story) so get violent meltdowns which are stress related.
As the metabolites of prog act on GABA like valium,
to keep my GABA stable without my doctors consent, I changed my 12 day cyclical micronised progesterone use from 200mg 12 days a month to 100mg daily and reduced the oestrogen patch to 75mcg to reduce the chance of endometrial cancer as daily progesterone meant no withdrawal bleed that I Was getting on the cyclical.
I had two bleeds one month apart in late 2016, then nothing until June and in june I started getting small amounts of watery pink discharge and darkk brown discharge randomly, and am still getting it, and these are symptoms of endometrial cancer as I had no bleed from end of 2016 until june this year when these smalll amounts of discharge appeared at random times.
I know that my doctor will take the progesterone off me and change it and I am really worried about how my mental state will be, as it is cross tolerant to valium, and also my physical health, adrenal crash.
I have spoken to my psychatric nurse who told me to ring my doctor tomorrow, as i havent had the courage to ring him/her since the bleeds started.
I live alone in a block of flats and am worried that I am going to run amok.
I suffer from meltdowns as I am undiagnosed asperger's/ADHD and had fits of rage all my life and all the other sypmtoms of adhd and aspergers, and cannot get tested until I am drug free.
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, I cant stay on the daily prog cos of cancer, I can't come off it cos of adrenal crash and mental breakdown and running amok and am worried as I have no one who can watch over me as my family live 300 miles away and i am housebound and see no one, people i know have thier own problems.
I am worried I will be incpacitated as I live on 3rd storey with no lifts, incpacitated as prog withdrawwl is like big benzo cut doctors dont put you on continuous prog/oestrogen until age 54 in britain, also, even on continuous hrt, there is still a 3 day prog break for withdrawal bleed, to keep womb lining thin.
I am scared I am going to end up in prison if I go psychotic as you hear of these people in the news going psychotic and turning violent and trashing the place.
My psych nurse is nice but doesnt understand the benzo/progesterone/adrenal thing and neither does my GP.
If I do have cancer I will have to have a hysterectomy, and they wont let me take progesterone on the NHS in this country and I cannot buy it online.
I am terrified but I promised my psych nurse i would make an appointment with my doctor and my psych nurse is going to ring me tomorow.
My doctor will not understand the link between benzo/progesterone/adrenal and neither will the gynaecologist they will refer me to.
I have googled my particular discharge and it points to cancer of the womb lining, pink watery and dark brown.
Im 52 now, and am not catastophising, and progeseterone withdrawals take a while to manifest, so if I run amok with psychosis or get adrenal crash, no medics will know what is wrong with me.
I also have a prolapse of the bladder, which i have been hiding from the doctor, I cant empty my bladder, stop uti's by drinking loads of water, and my vagina has a bulge in it.
Ive written a sheet of info about all of this down for my doctor but am scared stiff, that disaster of some sort is imminent.
HELP pls?
I'm at my wits end. I know ive been stupid but not had the guts to go see doctor cos prog removal will be like an enormous valium cut which could send me over the edge.
thanks for reading

75 mg is the most I've ever heard of anyone being prescribed. Glad you're reducing.
I've been on 12 mg diazepam for 20 years used to be 30 but tapered Down.
I've also been using cyclogest (national Progesterone Pessaries) at 500mg Daily for 8 years.
My doctor knew that Progesterone made benzodiazepines serum levels increase slightly and she mentioned this when I asked her to prescribe it.
Your doctor should know the same.
I've recently reduced from 500mg to 300mg Cyclogest over the last 7 weeks and need to drop another 100mg to get down to 200mg
I intend to ask if I can take it Daily for the same reasons you mention.

For me each 100mg reduction, caused bad PMS for a few days but understanding why it was happening does help plus you can't compare reducing prog to reducing Valium, nothing close to it. It's much shorter and for me at least feels more hormonal than benzodiazepines withdrawals and I've experienced both. (Went cold turkey off zopiclone 20 years ago in ignorance)

The spotting is VERY VERY VERY common both bc of your age and natural hormonal fluctuations and bc you've been adjusting your hormones.
I've had spotting as you've described since I started using cyclogest, I'm on such a dose I stopped having periods and just spotted at different times.

Progesterone is known to create spotting, nurses always mentioned this to me when asked about my cycle.

You have been changing your Oestrogen and Progesterone dose (recently?) which is yet another reason for spotting as a result of hormonal fluctuations.

Not sure what else to suggest, other than you need to tell you doctor what you have done, why and explain your fears about benzodiazepines and Progesterone cross addiction issues. He/she should be aware that natural prog does increase Benzo blood serum levels. It's in their drug handbook.

If you haven't had a smear,  request one... bc nothing I or anyone else will say will totally relieve your anxiety..
you've planted a seed of doubt now and it's growing inside your mind, it's called health anxiety and I speak from experience.

Do what you need to do to put your mind at rest as you won't get the medical all clear online x

[SueLW]

Excellent answer @roseenglish, excellent.

[EnglishRose]

I've read about your previous concerns re doctors lack of knowledge about benzo reductions.
This surprises me considering how prescribing has changed so much these last several years. I was slapped on a repeat prescription 20 years ago. No warning and I decided to come off a sleeping tablet after 8 months nightly use in total ignorance.
Had to leave my job, took 3 years of temporal lobe seizures and other horrible WD symptoms.
These days they are very very wary of prescribing benzos and if they do its 2 weeks max duration.
The reason for this is due to the increase in media attention, doctors being sued by long term benzo addicts who were taken off too fast etc.

Change your doctor, find someone younger they should be more up to speed with this insidious addiction.

Print this off
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/hypnotics-and-anxiolytics.html

NICE guidelines for benzo prescribing AND withdrawal protocol,


Copy and pasted:

Withdrawal of a benzodiazepine should be gradual because abrupt withdrawal may produce confusion, toxic psychosis, convulsions, or a condition resembling delirium tremens.

The benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome may develop at any time up to 3 weeks after stopping a long-acting benzodiazepine, but may occur within a day in the case of a short-acting one. It is characterised by insomnia, anxiety, loss of appetite and of body-weight, tremor, perspiration, tinnitus, and perceptual disturbances. Some symptoms may be similar to the original complaint and encourage further prescribing; some symptoms may continue for weeks or months after stopping benzodiazepines.

Benzodiazepine withdrawal should be flexible and carried out at a reduction rate that is tolerable for the patient. The rate should depend on the initial dose of benzodiazepine, duration of use, and the patient's clinical response. Short-term users of benzodiazepines (2–4 weeks only) can usually taper off within 2–4 weeks. However, long-term users should be withdrawn over a much longer period of several months or more.

A suggested protocol for withdrawal for prescribed long-term benzodiazepine patients is as follows:

Transfer patient stepwise, one dose at a time over about a week, to an equivalent daily dose of diazepam preferably taken at night.
Reduce diazepam dose, usually by 1–2 mg every 2– 4 weeks (in patients taking high doses of benzodiazepines, initially it may be appropriate to reduce the dose by up to one-tenth every 1–2 weeks). If uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms occur, maintain this dose until symptoms lessen.
Reduce diazepam dose further, if necessary in smaller steps; steps of 500 micrograms may be appropriate towards the end of withdrawal. Then stop completely.
For long-term patients, the period needed for complete withdrawal may vary from several months to a year or more.

[Dandelion]

I've read about your previous concerns re doctors lack of knowledge about benzo reductions.
This surprises me considering how prescribing has changed so much these last several years. I was slapped on a repeat prescription 20 years ago. No warning and I decided to come off a sleeping tablet after 8 months nightly use in total ignorance.
Had to leave my job, took 3 years of temporal lobe seizures and other horrible WD symptoms.
These days they are very very wary of prescribing benzos and if they do its 2 weeks max duration.
The reason for this is due to the increase in media attention, doctors being sued by long term benzo addicts who were taken off too fast etc.

Change your doctor, find someone younger they should be more up to speed with this insidious addiction.

Print this off
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/hypnotics-and-anxiolytics.html

NICE guidelines for benzo prescribing AND withdrawal protocol,


Copy and pasted:

Withdrawal of a benzodiazepine should be gradual because abrupt withdrawal may produce confusion, toxic psychosis, convulsions, or a condition resembling delirium tremens.

The benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome may develop at any time up to 3 weeks after stopping a long-acting benzodiazepine, but may occur within a day in the case of a short-acting one. It is characterised by insomnia, anxiety, loss of appetite and of body-weight, tremor, perspiration, tinnitus, and perceptual disturbances. Some symptoms may be similar to the original complaint and encourage further prescribing; some symptoms may continue for weeks or months after stopping benzodiazepines.

Benzodiazepine withdrawal should be flexible and carried out at a reduction rate that is tolerable for the patient. The rate should depend on the initial dose of benzodiazepine, duration of use, and the patient's clinical response. Short-term users of benzodiazepines (2–4 weeks only) can usually taper off within 2–4 weeks. However, long-term users should be withdrawn over a much longer period of several months or more.

A suggested protocol for withdrawal for prescribed long-term benzodiazepine patients is as follows:

Transfer patient stepwise, one dose at a time over about a week, to an equivalent daily dose of diazepam preferably taken at night.
Reduce diazepam dose, usually by 1–2 mg every 2– 4 weeks (in patients taking high doses of benzodiazepines, initially it may be appropriate to reduce the dose by up to one-tenth every 1–2 weeks). If uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms occur, maintain this dose until symptoms lessen.
Reduce diazepam dose further, if necessary in smaller steps; steps of 500 micrograms may be appropriate towards the end of withdrawal. Then stop completely.
For long-term patients, the period needed for complete withdrawal may vary from several months to a year or more.

Hi English Rose
I am sorry for the late reply and really appreciate the time you have taken to reply to me.
I'm glad im doen from 75 mg to 34mg valium. Good luck with your taper too.
Thanks for informing me aobut your situation. The thing is, cyclogest is a pessary so less is absorbed into the bloodstream than oral progesterone.
I hope your doctor will allow you to take it daily, if it is safe to do so.
I don't mean to sound contradictory but with oral progesterone its a different matter and there are lots of women on benzobuddies.org who have come off progesterone with disasterous results, which is where I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rock being that I need to change/remove the prog re possible cancer, and the hard place being the disasterous consequences of removing or changing it, but the bleeds have got worse and I am having slight pelvic pain and I also have a worsening prolapse that the doctor doesnt know about, I can feel the bulge in my vagina and cannot urinate fully.
Sorry you had the CT of zopiclone and had to go through that.

I havent adjusted my hormones since 2016, and its no longer spotting.

I'm worried because with taking prog daily for two years during perimenopause, my womb lining wasn't shed and I fear endometrial hyperplasia and yeah the dreaded C word.

Thanks for telling me prog is in their drug handbook, I'm just worried as I have meltdowns, fits of uncontrollable rage, (other non gynae major stresses)

I am due a smear so that will probably automatically come up, but (sorry for TMI) when I feel inside my vag, I can feel my bladder bulging. 

Once again, a big thank you for the time taken to reply to my thread. thanks.

[Hurdity]

I'm worried because with taking prog daily for two years during perimenopause, my womb lining wasn't shed and I fear endometrial hyperplasia and yeah the dreaded C word.

I've not been on the forum for a couple of days so just seen this.

Just to reassure you that just because you haven't had a bleed does not necessarily mean to say your lining is thickening and you will get cancer! How it works is that if progesterone is acting on the lining properly, when used continuously it doesn't build up - and therefore doesn;t need to be shed.

You were worried about the fact that you were using progesterone continuously during peri-menopause and you weren't bleeding. Rest assured that if your cycle was strong and you were ovulating regularly then your periods would breakthrough.

Mirena coil works by providing progestogens continuously and this is used as contraception. During fertile years women still bleed but much lighter - that's because their cycle is strong. As they get towards peri-menopause bleeding stops as less oestrogen is produced and the progestogen from the coil is sufficient to thin the lining.

If you were not getting a bleed and using progesterone continuously then most likely is that it was working to thin the lining and you had maybe reached menopause or nearly so. If you had a chance ovulation - this also might cause some breakthrough bleeding - even while taking the continuous progesterone - because you would have produced more oestrogen ( therefore more lining build up) during an ovulatory cycle.

That being said - if you are getting breakthrough bleeding after having been stable and bleed free for some time then why not check it out with the doctor? To me the most likely explanation is an ovulatory cycle but it is always worth checking these things out.

You do not need to stop progesterone and HRT while you have an investigation, so don't let the doctors say that you do. They can do a quick U/S scan and if necessary a TVS ( vaginal scan) and if your lining is thickened or shows any irregularities you might be sent for a hysteroscopy or biopsy - but really these investigations start at an early stage to prevent cancer being diagnosed early and ever reaching an advanced stage.

Most cases of bleeding do not mean endometrial hyperplasia, and most cases of this do not mean cancer so please stop worrying and get to the doctor soon so that you can put yourself in good hands and hopefully get reassuarnce that all is well.

If you are able to share your fears as outlined below with your mental health team and get some sort of note (not sure how it works) from them  regarding your mental state and how it muight be affected by changes to your HRT regime, to take to your doctor then all the better.

Is there someone you can take with you to your doc appointment so that you can also talk about the prolapse and other health issues? - make a double appointment if necessary.

Take care, take it easy and take those steps to safeguard (and hopefully reassure you about) you future health.

Hurdity  x
 

[EnglishRose]

I've read about your previous concerns re doctors lack of knowledge about benzo reductions.
This surprises me considering how prescribing has changed so much these last several years. I was slapped on a repeat prescription 20 years ago. No warning and I decided to come off a sleeping tablet after 8 months nightly use in total ignorance.
Had to leave my job, took 3 years of temporal lobe seizures and other horrible WD symptoms.
These days they are very very wary of prescribing benzos and if they do its 2 weeks max duration.
The reason for this is due to the increase in media attention, doctors being sued by long term benzo addicts who were taken off too fast etc.

Change your doctor, find someone younger they should be more up to speed with this insidious addiction.

Print this off
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/hypnotics-and-anxiolytics.html

NICE guidelines for benzo prescribing AND withdrawal protocol,


Copy and pasted:

Withdrawal of a benzodiazepine should be gradual because abrupt withdrawal may produce confusion, toxic psychosis, convulsions, or a condition resembling delirium tremens.

The benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome may develop at any time up to 3 weeks after stopping a long-acting benzodiazepine, but may occur within a day in the case of a short-acting one. It is characterised by insomnia, anxiety, loss of appetite and of body-weight, tremor, perspiration, tinnitus, and perceptual disturbances. Some symptoms may be similar to the original complaint and encourage further prescribing; some symptoms may continue for weeks or months after stopping benzodiazepines.

Benzodiazepine withdrawal should be flexible and carried out at a reduction rate that is tolerable for the patient. The rate should depend on the initial dose of benzodiazepine, duration of use, and the patient's clinical response. Short-term users of benzodiazepines (2–4 weeks only) can usually taper off within 2–4 weeks. However, long-term users should be withdrawn over a much longer period of several months or more.

A suggested protocol for withdrawal for prescribed long-term benzodiazepine patients is as follows:

Transfer patient stepwise, one dose at a time over about a week, to an equivalent daily dose of diazepam preferably taken at night.
Reduce diazepam dose, usually by 1–2 mg every 2– 4 weeks (in patients taking high doses of benzodiazepines, initially it may be appropriate to reduce the dose by up to one-tenth every 1–2 weeks). If uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms occur, maintain this dose until symptoms lessen.
Reduce diazepam dose further, if necessary in smaller steps; steps of 500 micrograms may be appropriate towards the end of withdrawal. Then stop completely.
For long-term patients, the period needed for complete withdrawal may vary from several months to a year or more.

Hi English Rose
I am sorry for the late reply and really appreciate the time you have taken to reply to me.
I'm glad im doen from 75 mg to 34mg valium. Good luck with your taper too.
Thanks for informing me aobut your situation. The thing is, cyclogest is a pessary so less is absorbed into the bloodstream than oral progesterone.
I hope your doctor will allow you to take it daily, if it is safe to do so.
I don't mean to sound contradictory but with oral progesterone its a different matter and there are lots of women on benzobuddies.org who have come off progesterone with disasterous results, which is where I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rock being that I need to change/remove the prog re possible cancer, and the hard place being the disasterous consequences of removing or changing it, but the bleeds have got worse and I am having slight pelvic pain and I also have a worsening prolapse that the doctor doesnt know about, I can feel the bulge in my vagina and cannot urinate fully.
Sorry you had the CT of zopiclone and had to go through that.

I havent adjusted my hormones since 2016, and its no longer spotting.

I'm worried because with taking prog daily for two years during perimenopause, my womb lining wasn't shed and I fear endometrial hyperplasia and yeah the dreaded C word.

Thanks for telling me prog is in their drug handbook, I'm just worried as I have meltdowns, fits of uncontrollable rage, (other non gynae major stresses)

I am due a smear so that will probably automatically come up, but (sorry for TMI) when I feel inside my vag, I can feel my bladder bulging. 

Once again, a big thank you for the time taken to reply to my thread. thanks.

I didn't know that (oral prog and benzo cross addiction)
I've been prescribed oral prog but haven't used them.
I'll write to the prescribing doctor with my concerns and see if I can stick to cyclogest but use it vaginally. (I've been melting it in my bra and rubbing into my skin)
It's likely not much has made it through my skin this way.

I hope you find some resolution and a doctor who is at least open to the idea of withdrawal complications.

Oh prolapse I don't know how progressed it is but I've started using vagifem which is local oestrogen absorber by your reproduction organs mostly. Helps the skin nerves and tissue of the vagina bladder uterus build back up after atrophy caused by lack of oestrogen.
Takes 3 months but won't hurt to try it, x

[Dandelion]

I'm worried because with taking prog daily for two years during perimenopause, my womb lining wasn't shed and I fear endometrial hyperplasia and yeah the dreaded C word.

I've not been on the forum for a couple of days so just seen this.

Just to reassure you that just because you haven't had a bleed does not necessarily mean to say your lining is thickening and you will get cancer! How it works is that if progesterone is acting on the lining properly, when used continuously it doesn't build up - and therefore doesn;t need to be shed.

You were worried about the fact that you were using progesterone continuously during peri-menopause and you weren't bleeding. Rest assured that if your cycle was strong and you were ovulating regularly then your periods would breakthrough.

Mirena coil works by providing progestogens continuously and this is used as contraception. During fertile years women still bleed but much lighter - that's because their cycle is strong. As they get towards peri-menopause bleeding stops as less oestrogen is produced and the progestogen from the coil is sufficient to thin the lining.

If you were not getting a bleed and using progesterone continuously then most likely is that it was working to thin the lining and you had maybe reached menopause or nearly so. If you had a chance ovulation - this also might cause some breakthrough bleeding - even while taking the continuous progesterone - because you would have produced more oestrogen ( therefore more lining build up) during an ovulatory cycle.

That being said - if you are getting breakthrough bleeding after having been stable and bleed free for some time then why not check it out with the doctor? To me the most likely explanation is an ovulatory cycle but it is always worth checking these things out.

You do not need to stop progesterone and HRT while you have an investigation, so don't let the doctors say that you do. They can do a quick U/S scan and if necessary a TVS ( vaginal scan) and if your lining is thickened or shows any irregularities you might be sent for a hysteroscopy or biopsy - but really these investigations start at an early stage to prevent cancer being diagnosed early and ever reaching an advanced stage.

Most cases of bleeding do not mean endometrial hyperplasia, and most cases of this do not mean cancer so please stop worrying and get to the doctor soon so that you can put yourself in good hands and hopefully get reassuarnce that all is well.

If you are able to share your fears as outlined below with your mental health team and get some sort of note (not sure how it works) from them  regarding your mental state and how it muight be affected by changes to your HRT regime, to take to your doctor then all the better.

Is there someone you can take with you to your doc appointment so that you can also talk about the prolapse and other health issues? - make a double appointment if necessary.

Take care, take it easy and take those steps to safeguard (and hopefully reassure you about) you future health.

Hurdity  x

Hi Hurdity
Thanks for your big hug. I will see doctor. My surgery advised they would be taking me off hrt after 5 years, but Im still needing a fan in bed on 75mcg evorel.
There are some things I forgot to say in my first message.
I forgot to to say that the bleeds I have been getting since June have been coming every 2 weeks or so and lasting longer than a normal period. I might be wrong but i thought ovulatory cycles happened every 4 weeks. It's also odd that I got 2 heavy periods in 2016 a month apart after starting daily progesterone with no breaks, then nothing, until nigh on 18 months later when these pink watery or chococlatey bleeds have been happening every fortnight or so for 6 months and lasting 9-10 days roughly.
They have been either dark brown and chocolatey, or watery and red.
I've also been getting slight pelvic pain and this last bleed has got worse.
Its' the fact that the bleeds are roughly forthtnightly and when i look up the type of bleed, pink and watery, or chocolatey brown, online, all health sites seem to point to cancer.
I'm worried about hysteroscopy as I've heard they are painful, can I insist on general anseathetic?
Also Taz's post dated October 23rd 2013 from my thread about being prescribed conti in error while in peri says this
Sorry Dandelion - it is not ok for you to use this HRT as you could end up with a thickened womb lining which can then lead to endometrial cancer which you don't really want to risk I am sure. You need to phone the doctors surgery, explain and get them to leave the correct prescription out for you to collect. It has happened to a few of us on here - it shouldn't but it does. Here's a link to the page the post is on
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22940.30.html
I hope I don't sound like I am contradicting you.
Thanks again for your reply.

[Dandelion]

Why are you being taken off HRT? I hope your doc isn't one of those who believes it can only be used for a short time in case it causes health issues, because that idea is outdated and incorrect x

Unfortunately, my GP said a year or so ago that the surgey only allows women to be on it for five years.

[Hurdity]

Hi again Dandelion

As others have said - you do not need to stop HRT if there is no medical reason not to be on it and you should ask at reception for an appointment with one of the doctors in your practice who is up to date and please contact your mental health specialist if possible so that you can take someone with you. That's the first thing.

Yes Taz is right in that a thickened womb lining can lead ( as I said) to endometrial hyperplasia and then possibly to cancer although only a very small proportion of thoese with endo. hyper. actually get cancer. Even so it is usually diagnosed at an early stage with early referrals so a hysterectomy can be performed with a high cure rate as only in the more advanced stages has it spread beyond the uterus from what I recall.

As I said below - if you were given continuous combined HRT when you were peri-menopausal and you were still ovulating from time time, then you would be producing your own progesterone and would have a bleed. Lack of bleeding during this time means you probably weren't ovulating or else the progesterone was sufficient to keep your womb lining thin. The only problem with taking continuous combined HRT when you are still peri-menopausal (depending how far into per you are) is the unpredicatble bleeding. Some doctors in fact do put (late) peri-menopausal women onto continuous combied HRT to start with - but if there is unpredictable bleeding then they are advised to go back onto sequi HRT.  I reiterate you do not need to have a bleed to shed your womb lining if it has not been building up, and if you are taking progesterone. If you are post-menopausal and the progesterone is insufficient to keep your uterus thin you will start to get breakthrough bleeding - but this can be at a much earlier stage than bleeding caused by cancer.

It is far more worrying to get a post-menopausal bleed in the absence of HRT then if you are taking it as that would mean the lining was thickening and shedding by itself.

I didn't realise from your original post that you had been getting this bleeding and watery discharge a lot of the time since June. You do really need to go to the doctor. There is nothing we can do or say to reassure you because bleeding can be due to al sorts of things and in your situation it should be investigated. Thereis no point in worrying and doing nothing. It can't alter whatever is happening but the longer you leave it if there is something wrong it will only delay a diagnosis.

As I said before - write down all the things that are bothering you and what you would like to happen ( ie stay on HRT as long as you wish to because it alleviates your symptoms, stay on continuous combined progesterone because it keeps you stable etc, investigate the cause of the bleeding) and go to the appointment with someone if you can.

If you have a thickened lining but that's all - then if it is too thick, you can always take a course of a progestogen such as norethisterone to shed it and carry on taking the utrogestan at the same time. Then after that maybe decide on a different dose that keeps the lining thin?

Are you taking it vaginally? If not then doing so will protect the lining better. Alternativley you could experiment with alternate days vaginally and orally (of 100mg) which will be better for your womb lining than orally, with higher doses of oestrogen, or even increase the dose to 200 mg daily orally if this suits you?

You need to discuss this with your doc - after all your doc agreed on your current regime after a lot of to-ing and fro-ing so there must be a doc at your practice who knows something and is willing to oblige?

Hope this helps and please see your doc.

Hurdity x

[Dandelion]

First of all, sorry @Hurdity for not replying to your post above, I've had so much on my mind, not just the cancer scare but issues with this flat also.
I went to my GP today, and she said she is referring me to Gynae, on a 2 week wait, so she has obviously given this great priority.
She examined me with a gloved hand and a speculum and said that in regards to my hrt I can stay as I am for the time being.
I hope the gynae says the same.
I got replies from Dr Currie, she has been marvellous, as have you  people on here.
She thinks that if in the event i have to have a hysterctomy, given my diazepam cross tolerance issue, it would be ok to take the utrogestan after the hysterectomy.
Regarding the prolapse, I asked her, if i need surgery, which i understand everyone does eventually, as I am a recovered opiate addict and do not want 2 operations, it wouldnt be unwise (not her words, but you get the drift) to do the prolapse and hysterectomy at the same time.
I expressed my concern about hysteroscopy pain to the GP and she said I can ask for a general ansesthetic, as I know a local lady who had one done and said it was agony, plus there are loads of ladies online who have had them done and said the pain is intolerable, one woman recommend you be driven there and back.
Ironically, when i trained as a pupil nurse (didnt complete training, wrong career choice) hysteroscopies were always done under anaesthetic.
One woman described them as barbaric and another said she felt she had been violated.
I can't imagine the pain of having a biopsy taken while your womb is filled with saline and your legs in stirrups, awake all the way through.
I am told you are asked to take ibuprofen and paracetamol before you go, but i cant take ibuprofen as it interacts with valium.
So I just thought i would update you all, dunno if the gynae appointment in 2 weeks is for a consultation or actual exam, should have asked the GP, i imagine its for the exam, as the GP has me on a 2 week wait but i could be wrong.
Either way, my goal is anaesthetised hysteroscopy, free of cancer, and being allowed to stay on utrogestan, but as the GP said, they need to find the cause of these bleeds which ironically, on the day of my visit to the GP got a lot heavier.
Also, very soon, I am going into a care home for a month for respite care due to the stress this flat has caused. My CPN said I am anorexic as I am only 8st and stand 5ft 5ins tall and used to be over 13st and happy with that weight, all my curves are now lost.
At the bottom of all this worry is my feared unsaleable flat, which caused me to turn to unhealthy drug habit to cope, and thus daily utrogestan instead of sequential, to cope with the mental chaos that took place when I was on my oestrogen only days.

[NorthArm]

RoseEnglish, what a wonderful reply ❤️ - so caring and kind xx

Dandelion, I got into a spot of bother with lorazepam last year - and I'd only been taking 1 mg at night for six weeks! So I know full well the prog/benzo/ gaba link. Luckily it only took a month to taper off. I still have it as required - I took it for a few days in October when my son was critically ill in hospital and it looked as though he may have needed a transplant, or he might have died - that time was was pure hell, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, ever...Even though I only took it for about 5 days, I still took a week to taper off - that stuff is mad! so I well understand your fears. Congratulations for getting down to less than half of what you were taking xx

Have you thought about ashwaganda herb to help - it also attaches to gaba receptors and I found it really helped with the titre..

My regime was this
1. Took prog at about 8.30 pm
2. Ashwaganda at about 9 pm,
3. Then my tapered dose at about 10 pm
It really helped. I didn't need to do it this time as it was so short, but maybe this is something you can try?

But please, please get yourself checked out - this uncertainty will be doing your stress/anxiety levels no good. You're a strong woman, you must be after all you've been through...

Dr Currie's idea of having the prolapse repair along with the hysteroscopy is a good one - at least you'll be able to easily have a GA...I find it horrendous that the hysteroscopy might be done without a GA as a matter of course, and they don't do local anaesthesia either!

I really hope it can all be sorted for you xx