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[keancy]

Sooo. I decided to try some angus cactus because aparently it helps to increase your progesterone naturally. It arrived today and I took one. Then I read the leaflet and it isn't recommended if you're on HRT as it MAY interfere with it. My HRT is only estrogen not progesterone. Anyone else use angus cactus along side HRT here??

[Dancinggirl]

Herbal remedies are still drugs. You should ask your doctor if its ok to take this. I believe Angus Castus is thought to help balance your hormones through peri meno when hormones levels are fluctuating and sometimes help with PMT when having natural periods through our reproductive years. If you are on HRT then this should balance things.
Why do you want to increase your progesterone? What do you think you will gain? Have you had a hysterectomy and if so why?
If you need progesterone then it can be prescribed.
DG x

[keancy]

I have been telling my GP for months now I am constantly on edge "fight or flight" and all she has said is because I have Mirena I don't need other progesterne instead she raised my estrogen and I belive I have gone to much the other way now. For over a week now I have been getting massive headaches and panic attacks. I have started to lower my estrogen from 2mg to 1mg because I also have very sore breasts. I just need to balance things and get some calm so I  can relax and get some sleep again.

[Dancinggirl]

Ahhh! I wouldn't blame the Mirena for the low mood and anxiety unless you've only had it fitted recently and these anxiety symptoms have emerged since it was fitted - you certainly don't need extra progesterone unless you have started to bleed excessively.  I'm also not convinced that extra oestrogen will necessarily help either - I got more headaches when on high doses but if you have only been on the higher dose for a short while it may be worth persisting for a bit longer as the body may adjust and things could improve.
Sadly this type of anxiety does increase when the menopause hits and sometimes extra oestrogen can help some women. The alternative is to learn relaxation techniques to help control these panics and anxiety or consider an AD/SSRI or perhaps beta blockers as some women need something like this alongside the HRT.
Have tried taking Nytol for 2-3 nights to help you sleep (the one that has antihistamine in it, not the herbal one) as this can sometimes help to break the pattern of not sleeping.
I assume to follow all the usual strategies to help with sleep e.g. quiet time before going bed, warm bath or shower before bed, cool room with no technology read by low light till sleepy etc.
DG x

[Hurdity]

Hi there - you definitely should not be taking Agnus castus alongside HRT. There seems to be mixed info regarding its efficacy for menopausal symptoms and not enough research. As far as I can make out it does not increase progesterone levels as such but if you are ovulating and taking nothing else - the review I looked at said that one study showed it may have some effect on the hormonal control of the menstrual cycle via a different hormones and thereby could lead to an incrase in progesterone levels. There is no point in taking it if you have a Mirena and taking oestrogen HRT.

As Dancinggirl says - you are getting sufficient progestogen via the Mirena. How long have you had the Mirena in? Perhaps you might be better off using a transdermal oestrogen like a patch or gel? Have you any idea where you are in menopause or have you had a Mirena for a long time so you don't know what your cycle is doing?

If you are under 50 perhpas you might conisder one of the newer contraceptive pills which are a bit like hRT and ewill control your cycle so you don't get the mood swings and sudden surges in hormones (QLAIRA or ZOELY).

Hope you feel better soon.

Hurdity x

[keancy]

Thank you DG & Hurdity for your replies, sorry for the delayed response have been at work all day. I will tell you the whole story so as to answer all questions that have come up above.

I am 48 and year 3.5 to 4 years into Peri at this stage. I have my Womb & Overies

In the beginning I didn't realize for an entire year what was happening to me, it started sometime 2014 with the odd palpitations and hyperventilating, also more and more of Alcohol intolerance (not that I was ever a big drinker) At the time I had a stressful job and put it down to that. Late 2015 the anxiety and panic started to the point where in January 2016 I had a massive meltdown and ended up on AD. I very quickly realized they were not the answer but like a good girl I persevered until August of that year at which point I slowly weened off them under my GP's supervision. Around May time my periods had began to be erratic and yet still the penny never dropped, in October of 2016 I finally came off AD altogether. I had months with late periods until they stopped for 45 days and made a reappearance on Christmas eve, at this point the lights came on and I finally started reading up on things and knew peri had started and probably had been for a good 18 months. From that point I decided to go down the natural route and started taking supplements and vitamins, this went on until May 2017 when I reached breaking point again and saw the GP, he at the time agreed it was probably peri (no tests were done at this stage) and I was put on Evorell 50 combined patches, by June I felt absolutely fantastic and thought great I have cracked this, happy days.

I was wrong, and since then it has been a constant struggle to get it right. I was upped to Evorell 75 by the end off July 2017 by the end of August I had to revisit the GP because the progesterone phase of Evorell made me suicidal, I was close to doing something very stupid.

It was agreed I would stop the progesterone phase and just take the Estrogen and have Mirena fitted ( beginning of October 2017). By end of November I was so wired I couldn't sleep, constantly on edge and hyperactive as hell, another GP visit, another GP ( I am registered in a Surgery with 3 GPS) She decided to add Utrogestan to my regime, one a day vaginally. Finally I relaxed and slept like a baby again, happy days right??? Nope by mid January 2018 I thought I had the UTI from hell, antibiotics were given but it didn't get better only worse, another visit to the GP. I was told to stop Utro immediately and referred to various Ultrasound scans because no infection was found. By the time the scan appointment came through as I predicted the Bladder had settled and nothing untoward was found aside a gallstone (different story). Around the same time (mid February) I changed from Evorell to Sandrena Gel 1mg per day, again I started to feel much better and again the feeling didn't last and in May 2018 the Sandrena was upped to 2mg per day. Since February I had asked the GP for a small amount of progesterone to be added to my regime because again I stopped sleeping (I have now not slept through a night since January) and constantly tense and on edge, her suggestion is and remains until now I should be exercising to feel better.

I work 40 hour weeks, constantly on my feet in a factory doing physically hard work, I DO NOT have the energy to do anything else. A month ago I again ended up at the GP having missed days of work with total exhaustion, body-pain, joint pain crushing fatigue but still unable to sleep, numerous Blood-tests were done immediately and nothing came from it, the GP again offered me AD ( I AM NOT depressed, I am f***ing exhausted, sorry) I ended up taking 5 days off work because I was unable to move for pain, fatigue and nausea. And as off this week with the agreement of my Employers I have had to cut my hours down to 32 because I am unable to cope.

Now to come towards the end of this story and the reason for my asking about Agnus Cactus, I believe that I have gone towards to much Estrogen on board and that Mirena alone isn't helping me have switch off and calm time because about 10 days ago I had my first major panic attack again and my Breast are massively painful. (My GP advised when the Breasts get to sore I have to much Estrogen on board)

Woke with a start at 3.30am freaking out and it took me 30 minutes to snap out off it, since then panic comes and goes all day and all night on and off. I do take a good Vitamin B Complex as well as Vitamin D, Magnesium, Omegas and EP. Since Monday this week I have gone back to using just 1mg of Sandrena Gel a day and yesterday afternoon was the first time in 10 days I felt more relaxed and had no panic (None today as yet either) I will admit I have taken 1 agnus cactus yesterday and one this morning ( yes I know it wouldn't work this quickly, but lowering the Estrogen seems to be)

Just to also add, I have tried various things for sleep; Valerian root (makes me very nauseous and Zombied next morning) 5HTP ( after taking that I had the first nighttime panic attack) and the last two days I have taken Passionfruit Extract ( less panic, still no proper sleep and left me feeling dizzying all day today ).

I am sorry for the massive novel but I wanted to give you the full picture of facts that I am not new to HRT, haven't given up trying for months and that Mirena has been in place 12 months now. Everybody and their Hormones are different, I have always been very much in tune with my cycles ect and to my believe the key is a small amount of progesterone, but my GPs appear to be bored with me and are now unwilling to help me or at least let me try.

Thanks for your patience.

[Dancinggirl]

Thank you for giving us the full story.  Clearly the lower oestrogen is better for you.  Utrogestan does have a sedative effect, so I'm wondering if you should have the Mirena removed and use Utrogestan orally (25 days of each month), as it clearly aggravated your bladder when used vaginally. 

You are right, we are all different but I'm surprised you found the Utrogstan vaginally helped you to sleep (vaginal use tends to reduce the sedative effect). I slept well with the Mirena - which just shows how different we all are. When I took Utrogestan orally I slept quite well, had very vivid dreams and felt very sedated throughout the morning. I have to say that since menopause started (mine started in my mid 30s) I haven't had a full nights sleep whether on HRT or not and I'm not alone with this problem - it is quite common when meno hits.

I can really sympathise regarding sleep deprivation, as I have been without HRT for over 2 years now (I'm 62) and find sleeping much harder especially through the summer hot and humid nights. Waking with a start is typical for the menopause and I have to lie there and do Mindfulness to calm myself down when it happens.

Definitely try Nytol - it could well help - buy the 2 per night type from the pharmacist (not the herbal one) but only take one (so half dose).  When you tried Valerian I think it was a placebo effect as it isn't strong enough to be that effective. You may have slept a bit better because you took the Valerian and then felt ‘zombied out' because you had finally slept better.  I believe you need to take Valerian on a regular basis for it to have any positive calming effect.

Dropping to sleep and staying asleep can be sooo hard and sleep deprivation is a form of torture for a reason.  It's no wonder you are getting anxiety and panic attacks - you are stuck in a viscous cycle that needs to be broken.

I think dropping your work hours is going to help - you are in a panic because you are so tired and the over-tiredness is stopping you from sleeping because you are so tense and stressed. You need to learn to relax and this is not easy - it's a very hard lesson I've had to learn. Taking some progesterone is not going to work for long if you are so tense.
The menopause really messes with our heads and HRT can only do so much.

Just a thought - have you cut out caffeine and alcohol?
Did you sleep well on the ADs?
DG x

[keancy]

I have cut my cafeeine intake loads but not completely ( never after 6pm) and I rarely drink now.

Back in 2016 when I was on AD I had no sleep issues so can't say to be fair.  I struggle so much because I was always a person to go to bed and sleep quick till the alarm went off. Now I fall asleep quick but am in and out all night. I don't lay awake but am aware I come round and toss around.  I just want to sleep lol.

I am reluctant to remove Mirena because I very much like the no period factor.

As for Valerian aside the seditive effect I had severe nausea from these.

I will try to get the Nytol. Already checked on Amazon this afternoon but I can only find the herbal kind.

Thanks again

[Dancinggirl]

You know what - if you drop off to sleep and only wake a few times in the night but are able to get back to sleep, then I'd say you are experiencing normal sleep for a menopausal women. I often wake 3-4 times a night then go for a pee and it will often take me ages to get back to sleep.
Try doing relaxation techniques, stick with the lower dose of oestrogen and see how you fell in a few weeks with a shorter work week.
You can't buy Nytol on Amazon as you have to buy it from a pharamsist - it'll be behind the counter.
FG x

[keancy]

Thank you again. I have now found it from pharmacy 4 you online and made a purchase.

I will see how I fare.