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[Tempest]

Hello, Racjen. I just wanted to wish you the very best of luck with your appointment today - i'll be thinking of you! xxxx

[racjen]

Thankyou T, i feel really touched that you thought of me. Horrible morning, anxiety even worse because of the appointment, but the gynaecologist was lovely, very sympathetic. I always go into that kind of appointment thinking I'm going to have to battle to be believed and then I'm so relieved when there's no argument. Only 15 mins though, and given that the NHS is so crap with record sharing you have to start from scratch, so we didn't get very far. Having said that, she said that the thing the body struggles with most in menopause is transition (and obviously with sudden menopause that's going to be much worse), so the goal is always to try and achieve as stable a state as possible even if you're having to resort to guesswork to get there. So she feels we should eliminate the ups and downs of progesterone by trying a Mirena first and see how that goes. I've got to the point where I don't really think anything will work so I might as well try that as anything else. She's going to make me an appointment to do it at the hospital, so hopefully it won't be like some of the nightmare scenarios I've read on here (god I've become such a pessimist  ) xxx

[Angel1964]

I am having EFT therapy for anxiety. It does work if you keep doing it. Google it and look on YouTube.

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

 racjen - Thank you for your update. I'm certainly with you on the pessimism but who knows the mirena might just be the solution you've been searching for.

Your gynae's point about stability is interesting as I've often wondered if those of us who are forced to try different regimes because of poor response actually end up prolonging the roll coaster ride. Perhaps we are left suffering a perpetual peri meno and never achieve the hormonal stability that we really need. Having said that, if life without HRT is unbearable then we simply have to give it a try.

I hope you feel better soon racjen, you've travelled a difficult road and deserve to find peace.

Wishing you well.

K.

[TraceyTracey]

I found mindfulness helped some.  I learned during the sessions about ruminating and how disruptive it can be.   I realised I was doing it and decided to start having a little word with myself when I am ruminating and the drama is on repeat in my head.  I just tell myself it's not worth it and to let it go a few times.   I remind myself there is nothing I can do to change it and I have been here before and nothing bad happened.    Words to that effect.  It's simple but it works for me 70% of the time.   There are other times when the hormones just take over and there is no stopping that record playing over and over in my head creating mayhem.

Try it. 

[racjen]

Angel, is that EFT as in Emotional Freedom Technique, or Emotionally Focussed therapy? Google it and you get both, and there's a big difference. Having said that I have to say that, personally, I think if your anxiety is responding to either of these it's not the really specific kind of hormonal anxiety I'm referring to here (just my opinion, please don't anybody jump on me for it, I'm a bit too fragile right now). I've had years of psychodynamic therapy of various types, plus more recently EMDR for post-traumatic stress, and although all have been helpful for other areas of my emotional life none have made even the tiniest dent in this anxiety. It's physical. And Tracey, yes I practice mindfulness every day, it helps me get through the day but again it doesn't make a dent in the anxiety because it's physical, it's not based on thoughts, ruminations, worries. I'm not talking about a record playing over and over in my head, I'm talking about a physical feeling of fear and dread. Sorry to keep going on about this, but I feel I'm fighting a constant battle out there to get health professionals to understand this - I can do without it on here too.

[jillydoll]

I don't think of bad things , I just get this feeling of dread,
fear, of what? I don't know,! Is that the anxiety your talking about?
I'm even starting to get chest pain with it, and even though I get the pain,
I'm not thinking that this is it, this is a heart attack, but as soon as I get the pain a feeling
of dread comes immediately, a split second, after.
I don't know if it's hormonal, or I'm going flipping crazy, but I know it's real.
I haven't had any therapy of any kind, and to be honest, all your talk of this therapy and that therapy is over my head, all I know is that, I'm not thinking of bad things and then the anxiety comes, it just comes out of the blue, in any circumstance.

[dangermouse]

CBT and talking therapies will not be able to lower physical anxiety, it’s like trying to talk yourself out of a broken arm. It can stop panic that is triggered by the physical anxiety but only physical therapies can deal with physical anxiety.

Some options are curing the source (e.g. hormonal imbalance), the acupressure treatments we’ve been discussing (e.g. Sea Bands, reflexology), alpha brainwave stimulation therapies (Alpha-Stim, hypnosis to manipulate CNS), beta blockers, anti-anxiety meds, bio-feedback, bodywork, osteo/chiro/acupuncture.

It’s important to realise that hormones are incredibly powerful forces within our bodies which are also affected by our circadian rhythms (hence the 5am anxiety) where the moon pushes and pulls on the water in our bodies like the tide.

The anxious sensations are not damaging to the body as they are usually within the same range of heart rate and/or adrenal surges that you’d experience whilst exercising, they just feel frightening as they don’t align with your exertion or thought processes. They won’t hurt you though and they will eventually calm down.

[Angel1964]

Angel, is that EFT as in Emotional Freedom Technique, or Emotionally Focussed therapy? Google it and you get both, and there's a big difference. Having said that I have to say that, personally, I think if your anxiety is responding to either of these it's not the really specific kind of hormonal anxiety I'm referring to here (just my opinion, please don't anybody jump on me for it, I'm a bit too fragile right now). I've had years of psychodynamic therapy of various types, plus more recently EMDR for post-traumatic stress, and although all have been helpful for other areas of my emotional life none have made even the tiniest dent in this anxiety. It's physical. And Tracey, yes I practice mindfulness every day, it helps me get through the day but again it doesn't make a dent in the anxiety because it's physical, it's not based on thoughts, ruminations, worries. I'm not talking about a record playing over and over in my head, I'm talking about a physical feeling of fear and dread. Sorry to keep going on about this, but I feel I'm fighting a constant battle out there to get health professionals to understand this - I can do without it on here too.

Emotional Freedom - tapping.  Plus hypnotherapy. My anxiety seems to stem back to when I had anaphylactic shock I was 26, now 53. My therapist uses the word "trapped" on all my fears and anxiety which is true. I was ok for years then peri menopause was horrendous and now at post menopause it's reared its ugly head again. Was ok in the between bit. Xx

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.
  I completely agree with that  hormonal anxiety comes from a different source and I've found that the sane thing that scares me when the anxiety is high doesn't bother me when I'm in a calm state and all the horrible sensations have gone. In other words I can be I can feel terrible or fine about exactly the same situation all depending on what my hormones are doing.

Dangermouse - can you clarify that CBT cannot prevent the anxiety arising but can help us deal with those sensations so that they don't escalate into panic.  Is that what you meant in your last post?

Take care ladies.

K.

[Tempest]

I truly believe that this - and only this - explains it all for me. I suggest reading the whole website:

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/coping/withdrawal-induced-adrenaline-surges-quick-tips

In the end, time and lots of self care are the only things (I believe) that will make things better.

Menopause is a withdrawal syndrome - simple. Surgical menopause is brutal cold turkey withdrawal - obvious. The symptoms listed are exactly what we are going through, including the 'neuro emotions' of fear that no amount of CBT etc is going to magically fix. HRT can ease withdrawal - it's the 'methadone' of natural estrogen withdrawal (sorry if that sounds shocking - but it makes perfect sense to me)! xxxx

[aspie65]

Racjen, I know exactly what you mean.  The anxiety is purely physical and the feeling is quite unbearable, unlike normal anxiety.  I would rather have pain than this feeling.  I wanted to send you a PM to talk further but I couldn't.  So let me just say that if you ever want a sympathetic ear or some help in anything please PM me.  I really would like to help you somehow.

[racjen]

Thank you all - yes aspie, I've also had that feeling that I'd rather be in physical pain than this awful anxiety, it's impossible to describe why it's so unbearable but it really is. I'm so fed up with trying to explain it and getting that blank look - you either get it instantly or you don't. Thank god for this  forum - without I think I really would be believing I was cracking up (as I did when I had the perimenopausal bout of this, it was labelled by professionals as 'a nervous breakdown', no connection with the menopause whatsoever apparently. I know better now...) x

[dangermouse]

Yes, CBT is about changing how you think, so it will (if done well) make you automatically pick up the habit of rationalising so that panic never even comes into your awareness. Unless of course there is something real to react to like a car coming from nowhere about to hit you! This is what we have these emotions for to protect ourselves when in an emergency true fight or flight situation.

It is sometimes difficult to separate at what point your anxiety might change from physical to emotional as your awareness becomes clouded by the over stimulation. However, I for one will rationalise mine immediately so it never overwhelms me emotionally. When I didn’t know where mine was coming from that also caused emotional disturbance and fear that I’d pass out when on own but now I know I only have the sensation to ride out.

A simplistic example of how CBT would help with the panic that may ensue is through being taught how to believe the rational truth that ‘everything will be ok’ rather than the exaggerated lie that ‘something terrible will happen’.

The problem when you mention anxiety to a doctor is that they always perceive this to be the emotional type which then creates the frustrating mis-labelling and incorrect treatment and, in some cases a very condescending attitude, as many with emotional anxiety also have to sadly put up with.

Hope that helps!

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I've been researching therapists in my area and ideally I would like to see someone who can offer CBT but also other  therapies and  I've found a man and woman, both middle aged. I think I prefer the woman because she is more likely to have some experience of the menopause and to understand it's illogical and irrational effects on us and our emotions, even if she didn't have a difficult time herself she mentions the menopause in her advertisement so she is clearly aware of the subject. Also I think only another female really understands how overwhelming  all our hormonal changes can be, everything from period cramps  to  labour pains, they tend to be hard to deny when they are happening and can seriously disrupt our lives!

 racjen- I agree with you, we are struggling to adapt to a system that is distinct from anything we have experienced before, it's a different system or as Louise Newson puts it, a separate aetiology and that essential fact needs  to be acknowledged and understood by the people we go to for help.

Wishing you well ladies.

K.