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Author Topic: newbie  (Read 2061 times)

Jaymac

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newbie
« on: August 20, 2018, 01:27:23 PM »

Hi thanks for letting me join.
Im 44 and suspect Ive been peri for a few years and now I tend to bleed only every 4 months or so.  Recent blood tests confirm peri.   My issues are not too bad physically (I can cope with the physical)  But EMOTIONALLY I am anxious in the extreme!   HRT seems (been on for 3 months) has made anxiety worse not better! Wishing everyone on here good luck and good health as we try cope.

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Dancinggirl

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Re: newbie
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 02:19:15 PM »

Hi and welcome to MM Jaymac

At your age you really need HRT to protect you heart and bones for the long term.  You probably need to consider a different type of HRT - what one are you using? If it's Elleste (this has a very strong progesterone that many women cannot tolerate) then you may want to try Femoston 1/10 which has a kinder progesterone. Look under TREATMENTS to see your options.  DGx

Here is an article that may explain what is going with you :
Perils of the Perimenopause
While most women have heard of the term "Menopause", the term "Perimenopause" is less well known and even less well understood. Perimenopause is the stage from the beginning of menopausal changes to the post­menopause, the time following the last period. Post­menopause is usually defined as more than 12 months with no periods in someone with intact ovaries, or immediately following surgery if the ovaries have been removed. The perimenopause can be a stage of changing periods and early menopausal symptoms, changes which can often vary from month to month causing confusion and unpredictable inconveniences.
To best understand what happens during the perimenopause stage and the changes leading up to the menopause, it is important to understand the normal menstrual cycle. For ovaries to function, a complex interaction occurs between the pituitary gland (at the base of the brain), egg cells within the ovaries responding to chemical stimulation, and the release of hormones from the ovaries.
Follicular phase
The first day of a period is called Day 1 of the menstrual cycle. In the few days leading up to Day 1, if pregnancy has not occurred, estrogen and progesterone levels fall and this fall leads to a shedding of the lining of the womb – menstruation. The fall in estrogen and inhibin (a hormone which has been researched only fairly recently), also allows a rise in follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), which is produced from the pituitary gland, since high levels of estrogen and inhibin suppress FSH production through a feedback mechanism. FSH then stimulates development of egg cells in the ovary and by days 5–7, usually one egg cell in particular continues to respond. Developing egg cells are surrounded by fluid and are known as follicles. The ‘dominant' follicle produces large amounts of estrogen and inhibin, resulting in a fall in FSH.
Other effects of estrogen at this stage include stimulation of the lining of the womb to become thickened, ready to receive a fertilised egg.
Ovulatory phase
At about days 12 to 14, high estrogen levels stimulate release of luteinising hormone
 
 (LH) from the pituitary gland. The surge in LH causes the egg to be released from the follicle (ovulation).
Luteal phase
During days 14–28, the area of the ovary that has released the egg, the corpus luteum, produces progesterone. Progesterone further prepares the womb lining for accepting a fertilised egg. If the egg is not fertilised, the corpus luteum ‘collapses' and the levels of estrogen and progesterone fall. Without these hormones to support the lining, the womb then sheds its lining and menstruation begins again. Also, with a low estrogen level, FSH rises and a new cycle begins.
Why menstrual cycles change
The maximum number of egg cells (oocytes) within the ovaries is present before we are born; at around the fifth month of gestation there are thought to be around 7 million, and these decline to 1–2 million by birth. From birth onwards there is a gradual reduction, with around 400,000 remaining by the time of puberty, thereafter a gradual decline by the age of 40 years and then a rapid decline up to the menopause. Leading up to the menopause during the perimenopause, the follicles remaining are not only fewer in number but also of poorer quality and less able to respond to the stimulation by FSH. Occasionally, cycles occur where follicles have not developed fully and less estrogen is produced. Low levels of estrogen lead to menopausal symptoms, a rise in FSH, and a failure to trigger the LH surge leading to absence of egg release (ovulation). With no ovulation, progesterone production is also reduced, leading to irregular shedding of the lining of the womb and hence irregular periods. In the early stages, the ovaries fluctuate in how well they work, so that cycles may be normal some months and abnormal in others. Gradually the number of abnormal cycles increases so that eventually, no follicles develop, estrogen and progesterone production becomes very low, the lining of the womb is not stimulated at all, periods stop and FSH levels remain high. Finally, the menopause, the last period, occurs and is confirmed by having 12 months without periods. Following this, there may occasionally be episodes where the ovaries again produce a later burst of hormones, the womb lining is stimulated and subsequent bleeding may occur, but this is unusual and any bleeding occurring more than 12 months after a period should be reported and investigated. Generally, estrogen and progesterone levels after the menopause remain steady and low, unlike levels during the perimenopause. During the perimenopause, the ovaries are still working and producing hormones but are not producing the correct balance of hormones. In the early stages, the levels of FSH, LH, estrogen and progesterone fluctuate markedly and symptoms and period patterns may change from month to month.
Period problems
Often the changing and falling progesterone level, which regulates the lining of the womb (the endometrium), causes erratic, heavy or prolonged periods before any other menopausal symptoms are noticed. Many women experience periods which can be unpredictable and so heavy that the flow can be difficult to control, often flooding through sanitary wear and clothing. Women often put up with this inconvenience for some time before seeking help but since very effective treatments are available, help should be sought sooner rather than later. With this change in period pattern, your doctor will usually arrange investigations such as an examination and possibly referral for a sample to be taken from the lining of the womb or a pelvic scan. These

 investigations are to exclude causes other than the hormonal changes of the perimenopause. Hormone levels can fluctuate for several years before eventually becoming so low that the endometrium stays thin and does not bleed and so periods can be troublesome for a number of years before they stop, but can also vary in that some months may be normal, often giving a false sense of security!
Once it is established that the cause is hormonal imbalance, treatments can be considered.
Treatments
If the main problem is heavy periods which are not too frequent, the tablet Tranexamic acid can be used; this is taken during the period and simply leads to less fragility of the blood vessels within the womb lining, and hence less bleeding. If the heavy periods are also prolonged and/or frequent, some form of the hormone progestogen can be given. This can be given in tablet form or in the form of Mirena; a small plastic device which is inserted into the womb, and gradually releases progestogen into the womb lining, making the lining thin and reducing bleeding. Insertion is a simple procedure and usually takes place in a clinic without problems. Mirena has the added benefit of providing effective contraception, which is still required in the perimenopause, right until 2 years after the menopause in women who become menopausal under the age of 50, and for 1 year after the menopause in women becoming menopausal after the age of 50.
Other treatments for period problems include various forms of heat treatment aiming to destroy most of the womb lining (known as endometrial ablation), leading to reduced bleeding and are usually carried out as day­case procedures.
For some women, a hysterectomy (surgical removal of the womb) may be needed but is carried out less often in recent years than was required in the past, due to the introduction of simpler, effective treatments.
Other problems of the perimenopause
The fluctuating and gradually falling level of estrogen taking place during the perimenopause, can lead to early signs of the symptoms more often associated with the menopause such as hot flushes, night sweats, mood changes, disturbed sleep, joint aches and change in weight and distribution of fat; more fat tends to be deposited around the waist rather than the hips leading to a change to the "apple" shape rather than "pear" shape. Symptoms affecting the vagina and bladder such as vaginal dryness, irritation and itch, discomfort during sex, passing urine often and at night and discomfort when passing urine, are thought to be later symptoms of the menopause, but some women may notice them in the perimenopause. Symptoms may be initially mild and, because periods are still present, are often not recognised as being hormone related. Further confusion may arise because, as with period problems changing from month to month due to fluctuating ovarian function and hence fluctuating progesterone production, estrogen production may also fluctuate and so these estrogen deficiency symptoms may also vary.
It is important that these early changes are recognised and that discussions take place so that women understand what is happening.
Management of the estrogen deficiency symptoms of the perimenopause should start with review of diet and lifestyle; the early changes should alert us to put in place whatever changes are needed, such as improving diet, losing weight, increasing exercise, stopping smoking and reducing alcohol and caffeine, to reduce not only early symptoms but also long term effects of estrogen deficiency such as osteoporosis and cardiovascular disease.
Specific treatments such as Hormone Replacement Therapy should be considered and would aim to "top up" the declining estrogen levels, while providing progestogen for protection of the womb lining.
Often, the effects of the changing hormone levels of the perimenopause can be challenging to treat since each month can be different but effective treatments are available and when the changes are troublesome, information and advice should be sought.
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Jaymac

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Re: newbie
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 04:08:38 PM »

TY dancingirl for your reply.

was on sequiConti patches. That's estradiol only for 2 weeks and then combo of estradiol + norethisterone for 2 weeks.  I did almost 3 months of this but I stopped a few days ago as the anxiety is just crazy!  Bad!!!!!  Like Mega unable to even do simple things bad ! 

I feel it must be the estradiol we really it is ALL month - not only on the norethisterone weeks (GP said estradiol makes most women feel better not worse  but.... I'm like “ffs - take me seriously I feel anxiety off the scale”. Maybe “most” woman do improve on hrt - but I feel WORSE!

A lot worse.

GP today suggested I change to prempak - it's got a different sort of progesterone and oestrogen apparently? 

But... feeling so awful on sequinConti Makes me very nervous to try prempak in case it's the same.

In my case I cannot afford to be this anxious as my husband has been fighting Cancer (acute myeloid leukaemia) and I HAVE To be able to control my emotions sufficiently to help HIM....this devastating illness  is hard enough without the hormones making it more so. I can't afford time to “play around to see what works”.


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Jaymac

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Re: newbie
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 04:12:33 PM »

Ps sorry for the long post - really I cldv summed it up with

“Dr suggested diff hrt but I'm too scared to try incase it's worse!

Ps - I had endometriosis for years  and had one ovary removed a few years ago.



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Ladybt28

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Re: newbie
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 05:38:38 PM »

Hi Jaymac,
Unfortunately Prempak is discontinued and has been 2 years or so.  Dr is right it is different kind of oestrogen.  I wouldn't say it was "different" progesterone. It is just one form of progesterone. The oestrogen is from pregnant mares.  It is one of the older types of hrt.  The progesterone is norgestrel.  I posted in reply to another lady yesterday that you can get the same drugs as were combined in Prempak but separately.  The oestrogen is called Premarin.   The doctor can choose the progesterone to go alongside separately, its whatever you can get on with.  I was given Provera which is the trade name for medroxyprogesterone - it didn't give me headaches like some of the other progesterones I have had before but I discovered I just cant take progesterone (any) in the doses you are supposed to take them.

Some women don't like the idea of it being from pregnant mares but for some women it can be grand.  I had Prempak before it was discontinued and had no major problems but was peri then.  I have found on my journey (I'm 56) that what symptoms and reactions I have has changed over the process.  I have trouble with the progesterone element and that varies wildly for a lot of women.  What suits one may not suit another and the degree to which they can get on with progesterone at all, varies also.  For example I could'nt take Femeston - yet it is widely loved here nor could I take Everol sequi conti - the conti bit was the problem because of the progestrone.  I found that when I had issues with my hrt the anxiety went off the scale and Ive tried a few - it is a common problem on here.  I am just post-meno.

The ladies here gave me advice and I dropped my conti regime to a cycle and as soon as I dropped my progesterone my anxiety dropped as well.  I cant comment as to how I am going just yet because I am about to start the oestrogel and utrogesten combo but on a cycle.  The trouble with it all is that ever time you change you are supposed to give it 3 months to settle down before you change again and that 3 months may or not be hell or more hell.

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Jaymac

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Re: newbie
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 06:20:30 PM »

Thanks Jari and ladybt28 for your advice.  This forum is already proving helpful. 

My plan (I think) is  I will give it HRT a miss for now.  I know I need to take something to protect myself long term but for now  I cannot afford to risk something that might make my emotions worse. 

 I was ok (ish) prior to going on HRT - by that I mean not great by any means but ALOT better than I felt with HRT.  Im going to lurk around the forums to see what natural supplements I can take.  It's 99% emotional that I struggle with - the flushes are there, oh and the itchy skin is the pits but that I can handle the physical as it's not that bad.  Its the ANXIETY thats the worst.  GP has prescribed some propranolol so will give that a go.
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Dancinggirl

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Re: newbie
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2018, 07:08:31 AM »

Hi Jaymac

You have a lot on your plate right now and I wouldn't normally suggest this but I think you should consider an AD/SSRI for a short while to see if this helps with your anxiety.
If anxiety and low mood are your main symptoms and oestrogen didn't help, then your mood is possible not just hormonal but a reaction to the awful Things going on in your life and you need a relief from the stress.
I had a friend who went through a particularly stressful time and hrt alone wasn't helping so her GP very kindly adviced that an AD for just a few months would give her mind and body the break it needed. She followed his advice and just took something for 6 months and then gradually came off it and now she looks back and is grateful to that GP for handling her so well through that time. Now ADs/SSRIs can also give side effects and you should be monitored but do discuss this with your GP as an AD alongside a kinder HRT ( Femoston) might be what you need right now. If you had endometriosis then having a Mirena fitted with seperate oestrogen  as gel or patch might be your best option and also better for your mood.
DG x
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Hurdity

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Re: newbie
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 11:03:28 AM »

Hi Jaymac

 :welcomemm: from me too.

So sorry to hear about your husband and quite understand your need to be on the ball and positive right now for his sake. These circumstances together with your menopausal symptoms will be combining together to make you feel worse.

I am interested that your doc has not given you continuous combined HRT, ie the Evorel sequi regime (two weeks Evorel 50 and 2 weeks of Evorel conti - combi patches) with a history of endometriosis but I presume this will be monitored? If the doc has OK'ed your being on cyclical HRT then yes a different type could be tried - without norethisterone. If you prefer patches then you could either take Utrogestan (micronised progesterone) for the two weeks or Provera as suggested by Ladybt28. Utrogestan may give a calming sedative effect which may be helpful to you - if not too high dose - but in your case it needs to be high enough to prevent any endo deposits growing. Provera is stronger in terms of endometrial protection. As Dancinggirl says also Mirena coil is a good one - but becauise there is less systemic absoprtion it might not be sufficient for protect against endometriosis deposits growing but depending where they are - hopefully it would be - the added advantage being this is one of the best progestogens for acting on endometrial tissues ( ie womb lining) and preventing stimulation by oestrogen.

As Dancinggirl says maybe in your very particular and difficult circumstances a short-term anti-depressant (as well) may help you cope if you do not have time to wait - but you should also take HRT or something with extra oestrogen in to help protect your heart and bones as already said.

There is also another option if you feel the HRT is making your anxiety worse - the combined contraceptive pill. There are newer types which contain the same oestrogen as we produce (estradiol) , not the strong synthetic types - the names of the pills are QLAIRA and ZOELY. Qlaira only has 2 tablet free days and also progesterone on more days than HRT so giving you better protection for endometriosis I would have thought - your specialist should be able to advise. The advantage of these being they suppress your cycle so you don't have the surges of hormones and the associated emotional mood swings.

Hope this helps and please let us know what you decide or if we can help further. If you need to chat to anonymous but supportive women  about what you are going through, then do start a thread in private lives and you can expect some warm and sympathetic responses.

Hurdity x
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Jaymac

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Re: newbie
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2018, 11:40:48 AM »

Thank you so much to all that have replied - your advice is very helpful - and kind.  I took your advice and went to GP today who has prescribed SSRI's.  With the GP agreement I am going to try SSRI only for a few weeks and the re-introduce the HRT. 
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