Hello ladies,
I know that most of you don't care if there are minor differences between the batches. I respect that. I just like to get to the bottom of things. I have been reading a lot about Pharmaceutical companies and markets and I am personally interested in the business. I have found some inconsistencies in information so far regarding the carbomers. In theory the 934p shouldn't be marketed in Europe, but it is licensed in the US, all Estrogel produced by Ascend Therapeutics (a Besins Healthcare affiliate) has the 934p. Some Oestrogel cartons have the 934p listed, some have the 980 NF, some just say carbomer. If this is a leaflet error (as Besins have told Hurdity) this has been happening for 19 years... wot?
I agree that the batch number is also important, so if you could post the numbers after finishing the bottle, I'd appreciate that.
Oestrodose is not the 'original' product. It's just the French trade mark. Oestrogel is the name marketed all around the world, except for the US (Estrogel) and some Asian countries. I agree that names, carton, bottles are irrelevant but that's what we have to compare, otherwise we have to 'believe' Besins. I'm not a believer. It's business and it's about money. We are the guinea pigs, with brains.
Conolly X
Well I certainly do care which is why I started the investigation! Exactly as you say - like you "I just like to get to the bottom of things." - and I have said as much many times!
re the labelling of the leaflets - the leaflets in UK don't have the actual carbomer on them and I have no idea what the actual printed leaflets in the rest of Europe listed. However I can well believe that certain errors may well have persisted once the first error ( lack of proper checking) had been made.
For example the Base Donnees entry (in France)for Oestrodose I reported in August (I think) had a different carbomer listed for the equivalent of the PIL compared to that for the SPC
for the same product. This was clearly an error - which has now been rectified!
If someone genuinely feels that they don't have the same benefits from the parallel import products, then I think it's important to clarify what could be causing this. If the products are the same, it's a powerful placebo effect which is also important to verify.
Conolly X
This is exactly the point - no-one is suggesting that it isn't important to find out.
There is no reason not to "believe" Besins - we may all be suspicious of big pharma but there is very strict regulation of products in the pharmaceutical industry which would make it unlikely that a large reputable company would simply make it up and just use any old carbomer that came to hand.
The only thing that has not yet been established and which I have referred to many times including in my last post - is whether any of the parallel importers are getting their oestrogel/oestrodose from outside the EU (or storing it in unfavourable conditions) and not manufactured by Besins in their Belgium ( France?) plant. The leaflet in all these products will say where the gel was manufactured and according to Besins it is by them.
Some of the parallel importers appear only to be repackaging minimally - ie procuring estradiol gel (Oestrodose) and sticking a label over it for the UK market. Again the key to its origin and manufacture is in the leaflet - I have said several times that if the leaflet says it is made by Besins in Belgium ( or France - can never remember which!) and it isn't - this is fraud and our own regulatory system would want to know about it as well as Besins I imagine.
Interesting thread to follow - at least if you're not bothered which one you get or don't actually use the gel. Probably causing a good deal of anxiety to some though.
Oh dear! I started this thread with the intention of alleviating any anxiety not to cause it! Until I wrote to Besins and established something about what's going on there were all sorts of rumours going around about what Oestrodose was and I hope I have clarified this at least!
re the batch numbers - I've had a message from a friend (not a member of this forum) who says that it is very difficult to break open the plastic containers and get at the inner pouch but there are batch numbers on the packaging. I first asked for these back in August and so far no-one has posted any!
Also please if anyone has got any Oestrodose which they think is not proper Oestrodose and notices a marked difference in consistency or has an allergic reaction - please do report it and keep the bottle. Since I started this thread again no-one seems to have reported anything
- on here at least. It would be helpful to do so as we are all trying to understand what's going on even if placebo which I think I referred to right at the start as a possibility!
Connolly I am puzzled by your response from Doncaster Pharma but as there have been several errors in info on the web - this could also be an error as besins have assured me it was a very long time ago that they stopped using this carbomer.
Incidentally - and I think I mentioned this earlier somewhere - from what I read about carbomers the 934 would be very different from 980 and it would not be a "minor difference" - they seem to be designed for different purposes so I think the gel would have behaved and appeared very differently. It would be very interesting to get hold of some of the American Estrogel (which has the 934 ?) and UK/French Oestrogel/Oestrodose with the 980 and squirt them/rub into skin side by side....
The saga continues....
Hurdity x