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[Charys]

However, I suspect it's more linked to the thyroid and hyperthalmus and it's very common a week after an anaesthetic.

Interesting you should say that, as a common anxiety symptom is hot and cold flashes - and it has been proved that anxiety and major stress can affect the thyroid. There is also adrenal fatigue as another factor that can enter into this conversation too. You aren't wrong, its incredibly complex and much seems not known yet about what causes one little variable to have a domino effect on other things.

[Hurdity]

I presume that after your cancer treatment you are taking extra care with lifestyle (exercise, alcohol etc), diet and weight to minimise any chances of cancer of any sort recurring? I hope you don't mind my saying - as I am sure you will already be doing all you can!

You know Hurdity; Before being diagnosed I was perfect BMI, teetotal for 20 years, don't smoke, am a pescetarian (only eats fish as a meat source) who eats vasts amounts of vegetables, pluses, nuts and healthy home cooked foods. Ok, so my exercise isn't rigorous, but I am very active and do a lot of hill dog-walking, gardening and physical activity in my working roles. Never taken any hormone medications including the pill, gave birth, no genetic link either. There is nothing in my background that would have screamed 'risk factor', it was purely unlucky and if it reccurs it will also be unlucky. I spent a long time, as many women do, feeling guilt about having caused it and analysing their past, so I make a deliberate effort to be honest to not worry too much about life factors and try to live it with as much vigour as I can currently muster lol My oncologist said to just go out and live and not concern yourself about obsessing over diet and so on, so I do that; eat plenty of cake, chocolate and do lots of what I enjoy.

I've read the article a few times now Hurdity, I understand all the loops and feedback, this failing and that failing and dropping, eggs and ovaries and so on ....but it doesn't describe the actual point by point hormonal reason for stop start periods. I know what in general is happening to me and the reasons for the irregularity. 

Maybe I'm expecting to understand something that I can't, in detail of knowing what is rising, falling and so on differently to usual in this particular period only. I mean - in this case is it - non-egg production, High FSH, Low progesterone or high oestrogen...you get what I mean....the specific relationship between all the variables that produces this outcome, this month. Ignore me, LOL, I know what I mean. I analyse each period, as each one is different to try and figure out the physiological causes that particular month. By applying some logic, to what feels entirely randomly changing I thought it might help. Maybe I just have to accept that I won't know or understand, as I'm never going to understand the complexities of all the reproductive hormones. 

Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it.

Sounds like you and your oncologist have the right attitude following your cancer - mkae this most of your life without worerying too much about the ifs and buts and whys and wherefores - I know I would be the same as you in your position. Like you, I live as healthy a lifestyle now as I possibly can - but you never know what's round the corner and sometimes you can't do anything about it. All I do at least is minimise the chances of things I have control over (diet, exercise or lack of it etc) deciding my fate for me!!

re the hormones I don't think anyone can know what is happening in any particular woman's body in terms of hormones - you cano nly guess at a number of possible explanations.

By this I mean - during peri-menopause there is a lot of irregular bleeding, variable length cycles, heavy and light (or continuous or absent) flow.

In a normal menstrual cycle, the bleeding is expected and normal - and is caused by the fall in progesterone due to the lack of fertilisation of the released egg - progesterone withdrawal bleeding.

Any other type of bleeding is to some extent abnormal bleeding. What often happens during peri-menopause and the anovulatory cycles, as we've discussed - is that the womb lining continues to build up because there is no egg produced. Sometimes when it gets to a certain thickness, it starts to fragment and spontaneously break away - causing bleeding. This is not usually accompanied by typical pms symptoms (because there is no ovulation, no porgesterone rise and fall aand probably no dramatic oestrogen dip).

In addition there is another common type of bleeding which some women get when oestrogen dips suddenly even though ovulation hasn't taken place - and this can happen during peri-mebnopause when lots of follicles start to grow but there is no dominant follicle. All these follicles produce oestrogen and when they fail to develop, oestrogen production falls - which can also sometimes causes bleeding (if the lining has developed sufficiently).

Some of the apparent two week "cycles" may not in fact be true cycles - so do you see how difficult it is to say what is actually happening to you?

I hope this explains a little why it is more complicated but sorry I can't really answer what you want to know!

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Ah yes the 40 day'ish cycle was happening to me last few months. I think it's because they're anovulatory and so no progesterone is produced and so oestrogen just continues to surge.

Yes, that would make sense I guess. So, dangermouse....I'm going to get you using your peri/hormone problem solving now  If oestrogen is surging and not enough progesterone as anovulatory, then it takes longer for the progesterone to build up to overtake the oestrogen and trigger menstruation? Is that kind of it? However, both oestrogen and progesterone might be low, with oestrogen being lower than it used to be a few years ago - but still more dominant than progesterone. In that set of circumstances, it could account for lower amount of bleeding to usual (which is what is happening) right, as less oestrogen to build lining ? The stop/start could be the progesterone dipping and rising? Oh I don't know....) There are other things here too aren't there, LH and FSH and testosterone, other variables.

Orrrrrr it could be that the whole cycle was slow to get start, as both Oes and Pro were diminished at the start ?

During anovulatory cycles there is no progesterone to speak of ( not connected with mensturation anyway). Progesterone is only produced in large quantities by the corpus luteum, the empty sac left over after the egg has been released. The corpus luteum produces oestrogen and progesterone until the egg is fertilised and implanted, and the placenta begins to take over (hormone production). So during peri-menopause, if you ovulate, you produce large quantities of progesterone, but if the egg isn't fertilised, the corpus luteum "dies", progesterone (and oestrogen) fall (signalling no pregnancy) and the lining is shed as the menstrual bleed.

Progesterone does not build up as such, at all.

What I'm not clear about is whether the actual corpus luteum produces less progesterone during peri-menopause leading to less efficient clearance of the womb lining, rather than the decrease in progesterone being entirely due to lack of ovulation ie anovulatory cycles.

Carrots are of course very healthy as are all vegetables but hypothyroidism can only be treated with hormones!

Hurdity x

[Charys]

Wow, thanks Hurdity, that is helpful and kind of gets to more of my queries.....honestly, that has really helped. I will need to re-read it after work to really get it into my scatty (right now) brain. Yes, basically 'nobody can really know' is the bottom line, so I am searching for answers each cycle that I probably won't get as there are too many possibilites based on the general changes (that you have highlighted above). I think I'm just not happy with 'guessing' and 'irregularity' as a personality trait, and that is what I need to wrap my head around. When I'm bemoaning everything different every month, and how I never know what is going to happening/what is happening, my husband says - "but it is predictable, its now predictably irregular and different every time LOL". I'm sorry I've been a bit of a pain over all this - I'm the sort of person who during my treatment wanted to know everything, I'm the sort of person who keeps stopping the dentist to ask questions and have even been known to watch him with a hand-held mirror lol



 

[Charys]

Sounds like you and your oncologist have the right attitude following your cancer - mkae this most of your life without worerying too much about the ifs and buts and whys and wherefores - I know I would be the same as you in your position. Like you, I live as healthy a lifestyle now as I possibly can - but you never know what's round the corner and sometimes you can't do anything about it. All I do at least is minimise the chances of things I have control over (diet, exercise or lack of it etc) deciding my fate for me!!

Yep, that all each of us can do isn't it, have a generally healthy lifestyle. I went through the first few months reading on cruciferous vegetables (which I already eat loads of) soya, walnuts LOL (which I do eat a handful of a day) and a huge variety of things. Then I saw others, who were also 'cancer free' but had been diagnosed, spending obsessive amounts of time on researching and trying to control every thing that went in their mouths. Often they were reading rather dubious articles that deemed to 'cure' as well! Every day brings new evidence and theories, and its ever changing, good for you one day in one respect but bad for you in another respect. The bottom line is, as you say, none of us know what is around the corner (could be an out of control bus for example lol), and living is fairly risky and to spend all your time worrying and being upset and trying to control every last footstep is not a great way to live.
I think that's why I'm struggling even more mentally with this late peri stuff (yep, I've plonked myself in that category as mentally it helps me to think its late) as I had relatively good year after treatment ended and this damned low mood and anxiety is ruining living at a good quality - as I want to. Anyhow, nothing is forever is it.....
Ta for 'listening'.

[dangermouse]

“Carrots are of course very healthy as are all vegetables but hypothyroidism can only be treated with hormones!

Hurdity x”

I'm on a forum where people have used raw carrot to heal their hypoathyroid and come off their meds.

You have to ask the questions ‘why is thyroxine low, what is missing from the body to make adequate thyroxine?'. Perhaps specific nutrients are the answer (packaged in food ideally) which is a much more body-accepting way to rebalance hormones.

[Charys]

Adding to my own thread here, rather than starting a new one - as its still all 'cycle length' related.

So, when I was looking for reassurance about cycle lengths, bleeding number of days and erratic period related things, I came across a thread where a member had listed her last year of cycles. It was a regular member on here, and I've been looking for the thread and can't find it now - wonder if anyone recognises this ?

I am not coping well here the last few days. My period started on day 40 and I had a stop start period for about 10 days of about the amount of flow I would expect.....now still spotting for the last days. It is really freaking me out, it just won't entirely stop. It literally is a very low amount of blood and then it stops for 24 hours, then more spots. Can this go on for weeks like this...would this be normal at this late peri stage ? My mood is great one day, low another, wash and repeat.

I know the facts about why this is happening, what can causes it etc etc - as Hurdity has provided some helpful input about reasons for bleeding ina  post above. I just wondered if someone who has experienced it could provide reassurance, as it helps to know I'm not alone (as you know if you've been following my story kind reader, I'm needing to do this process 'naturally'  with no intervention, but its kinda hellish).

[Snoooze]

I think the thread you're looking for is ‘cycles suddenly longer'? I've just bumped it for you.

[Charys]

Thanks Snooooozeeee