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[Charys]

Okkkkayyyyy, am I entering a new phase of unpredictable? Some will know I've posted here about period cycles being closer together and really heavy during perimeno. This has been going on for 2 or three years. I've had some good support and advice on the matter here. Then last month, period came on day 20 (never been that early before), that lasted 12 days (never had that before).

 This month, waiting......nowt so far and it now day 36 and can't 'feel' like anything is building. What meaneth this, oh wise ladies of the forum ? Am I moving onwards in my perimeno to some other stage or other ? PLEeeasseee hope I am. I've seen others talk about the stages of perimenopause' and they seem to understand what these weird and wonderful erratic changes mean. Look forward to any thoughts - but getting a bit paranoid that when and if it does come itll be belting awful  Ahh well, I have got my mefenamic acid prescription ready, haven't use it yet, maybe my hormones knew I had been prescribed it. lol

[Charys]

Anyone...?

[Charys]

Trying one more time.....bump

[Snoooze]

Sorry nobody has replied Charys. All I can say is this sounds completely normal for peri and some ladies can go many months without a period but you have to go a whole year without one to be classed as menopausal. Peri menopause can last upto 10 years! Nobody can say where you are in peri and if you read up on the forum, you will see that some ladies are still going through peri into their late 50's and some women have big gaps of 9, 10 months without a period only to get one and then have to start all over again waiting for when it's been a whole year! Oh joy of joys!

[Charys]

Thanks so much for replying Snooze. That makes sense what you are saying - but can ask an additional question? - and this is going to sound a bit dumb. In the time when you are having a gap from the periods, like missing one, does the uterus just keep getting thicker and thicker? So, could you like get to 12 months and then....its awful. Or does it kind of stop doing anything?

[Snoooze]

I'm not sure sorry. You could always google that question!

[Hurdity]

Hi Charys

The stages of reproductive ageing have been characterised but of course not every woman will fit into the pattern! The phenomenon of periods getting closer together is usually part of the Late Reproductive Stage and after this they start to become more erratic and the cycle can vary a lot between periods. Once it varies by at least 7 days between periods this is deemed to be the start of peri-menopause although in practice some of the hormones begin to go erratic well before this and can give rise to worsening pms for example. If you Google "STRAW" reproductive ageing then you can read about it.

During peri-menopause some cycles you don't ovulate and in this case the uterus lining does get thicker - hence the heavier and erratic bleeding. This is why a Mirena coil is often recommended at this point - or else some of the contraceptive pills ( not POP once you have reached peri though).

Do have a read of this article about peri-menopause: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/magazine/pdf/Article%20-%20Perils%20of%20the%20Perimenopause.pdf

I hope this helps to answer some of your questions and puts your mind at rest!

As always - if you are concerned about your bleeding at all then do consult your doctor.

Hurdity x

[Charys]

Thank you so much Hurdity for taking the time to reply, I truly appreciate it. So, this might mean that I am no longer in the late reproductive stage, and moving onwards(day 37 and still waiting). I've had a year or so of much shorter cycles, and heavy bleeding, with a couple with 2 periods a month.I will indeed look up the links you have posted, that is very helpful.

So, I understand about the lining building in the lack of ovulation case that you've talked about here....but what about if say I don't have a period for 2 or 3 months, surely it doesn't just keep on going ? I mean what stops it, otherwise you'd have a stomach full of uterus lining by 12 months? I know this is an odd question, I'm just a bit scared at the moment, thinking about what could happen if and when it starts.

Actually, that might just be a dumb question, sorry if it is. 

[Charys]

OK, Ive just looked up a complicated looking diagram of STRAW.....ok, that explains things well.

I just feel kind of horribly bloated, and my tummy doesn't feel right. I've seen others talk about this too though.

[Charys]

Rightho, a bit more research....I'm now at 38 days and no sign of 'anything' coming.

I looked back in my diary and started recording heavy and fluctuating cycle length 4 years ago, along with a few others things like flushes during menstruation, cycle length has been shortening and shortening in the last 2 years.....and got to 20 days. Looking back (isn't retrospect a great thing), I can see that I was having annovulatory cycles certainly 3-4 years ago, and the last year has been bizarrely irregular with every manner of possibility.

So.....I'm now going to place myself on the 'late perimenopause' section of the STRAW. I know that the 60 day with no period is instructive as a guide to really being in that phase, but I've never in my life had a time where my period hasn't come (apart from pregnancy), so something must be different? Does this mean I am now low oestrogen at the moment? (cos I've always thought in earlier stages I was low progesterone).I feel tired, a bit cold, headachey and tearful right now, which ties in with low Oestrogen?

INterested in the thoughts of anyone who knows and understands STRAW and hormones  .

I know I'm probably being a pain, but I do like to try and understand things if I can - specifically as I can't take HRT so am trying to reassure myself that I am slowly but surely mmoving through this horrible episode in life. Sorry, lots of questions.

[Hurdity]

Hi Charys

No-one can say exactly what is happening to you specifically in terms of hormones - those STRAW criteria record general principles arrived at by looking at lots of studies and lots more women! The general trend is for less oestrogen to be produced as the ovaries start to pack up. I don't think the STRAW model looks at oestrogen levels - but the fluctuations can be very great so you can have times of very high oestrogen and also very low. A few women monitor (and record) their temperature and cervical mucus etc every single day  - (probably mostly in women who have fertility problems so that they can know when they ovulate) so can say consequently when their oestrogen is high. Most of us don't have much of a clue - except as a general principle women feel at their best leading up to ovulation when oestrogen is high and at its highest (and progesterone is at a minimum). I'm not sure what the symptoms of (naturally) extra-high oestrogen are though, or if they are unpleasant? I imagine one might feel super-charged and raring to go  !!!

Did you read the peri-menopause article - that and the STRAW paper look at what's happening in terms of some of the hormones and follices being produced by the ovary? It's pretty complex and keeps escaping me (apart from the basics!).

Re feeling tired and cold - have you had your thyroid function tested - as this can also begin to go awry during peri-menopause, for some reason.

By the way usually your lining doesn't go on building and building in the absence of periods - early on it can do because lots of follicles are "recruited" by the ovary and start to develop - each producing some oestrogen - and then eventually there is a dominant follicle  and the rest disappear - the dominant follicle is the one in which the egg ripens and then ovulation can take place. There are other hormones involved.... once they start to pack you barely get any follicular activity so very little oestrogen - although some continues to be produced even after menopause. I did read somewhere a while back that there is a theory (?) that when the uterus becomes atrophied ( long after menopause) and in the absence of HRT, the oestrogen receptors in the womb lining become insensitive ( ?less sensitive) to oestorgen so the lining does not thicken - otherwise we would all be having post-menopausal bleeding at frequent intervals and the incidence of endometrial cancer would be high. Sorry this is just off the top of my head from what I remember of what I've read so a bit garbled! There is a ton of info out there but you have to Google and research and dig out the relevant papers.

Hope it helps a bit though

[dangermouse]

The very high oestrogen feeling is like you're super charged... with your fingers stuck in the electric socket!

It's extremely unpleasant and frightening at its strongest with nausea, palpitations, shaking, feeling freezing cold and sore breasts. At my worst I had to have an ultrasound and the technician said I looked like I had an alien in my body trying to get out with all the physical surging!

Obviously it can cause growths as well (endo, polyps, fibroids etc.).

[Charys]

Hurdity thanks SO much for taking the time to write me such a long reply....I am truly very grateful, as feeling quite lost right now. Yes, I've read the articles on here, just about all of them, and the one to the links posted earlier, but it was quite complicated and my lack of hormonal understanding is obviously showing  I've never done any monitoring of anything, like temp and so on....and no point starting that now I guess.  I shall go back and try to internalise that article again! I'm one of those people who likes to know and understand everything, which is probably why I'm struggling with this lack of consistency and lack of clarity that the human body is currently expressing to me). Dangermouse, I don't recognise those symptoms you refer to in relation to oestrogen being high actually, so that feels positive to me (is it? lol) so that would probably indicate it is low/normal currently.

Thanks both so much, it does help to 'hear the voices' of others who have done this.

[dangermouse]

Yes those were at the extreme end, otherwise it can all be quite subtle and, as you say, tricky to work out.

Too much or too little of anything will not make you feel good!

[Charys]

Indeed, I understand the too much or too little thing.

Can I ask....is it within the realms of peri to have months and months of shorter and heavier cycles, and then rapidly and suddenly have a missed cycle? I honestly feel so confused and anxious about this, as never had it happen.