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[Hurdity]

Hi there - the product info is available on the web which is what I was referring to (look under the listing on eMC. I realise it does not mention open sachets and I had thought of that too , but the prescribing info talks about increasing dosage in 2.5 g increments so implying that only half a sachet might be used. If the product was to deteriorate significantly after exposure to air then the storage info surely would have mentioned this i would have thought? Anyway no harm in putting in the fridge. I certainly achieved decent T levels ( + hairy legs!) using the sachets as per my consultant instructed!

I would be interested to hear what Besins says about it though!

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Bump for debra217

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Bump again for Bobidy!

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Bump for margherita

Hurdity x

[margherita]

thanks Hurdity

[Hurdity]

Bumpity bump for AJacynM

Hurdity x

[Tyaca]

Hurdity - your first post on this thread has been v useful.  I've been using testosterone for 4 1/2 months now.  One of my main symptoms was horrible dead leggedness, drowsiness  , v bad aches after exercise (not normal DOMs).

I felt like I'd been making an improvement all round til last ten days when lots of these symptoms came back. I've been stuck in bed unable to do anything :-(  fighting off depression.

4 weeks ago my dr changed me from testogel sachet, to be used over 8 days to tostran, used once every three days.  Looking at your numbers, I think my testosterone dose has effectively been halved?

1 sachet testogel per 8 days: 43.75mg per weeks

Tostran every 3 days: 20.3mg  Maybe a bit more - can't do the maths :-/

That's quite a big drop. Wonder if that could be part of current problem.

[Hurdity]

Hi Tyaca

Sorry to hear about your symptoms. Not sure what DOM's are?

If you used Tostran every 3 days this would be 23.33 mg per week (10 mg/3  x7) so yes just over half the amount of testogel. Why have you been changed? I think it's always better to use a 1% gel of tesosterone as it is at a concentration designed for the amount that men use. However that's not to say you will only abrob half - it may well be that you absorb more of it.

The main thing is what are your T levels ( and SHBG) as this should ideally be monitored when on replacement T, to ensure that levels remain within the physiological range for women? Also what other HRT do you take, how old are you etc? You might have said elsewhere?

What about libido/response - that's the classic sign of needing T?

Could your symptoms be due to other things eg vitamin or mineral insufficiencies or other hormonal disturbances eg thyroid? Maybe start another thread if about your general health as this is just about T dosage really!

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Update re Testim gel - Testim 1 % gel seems to be available again but manufactured by a different company - it is once more listed on our database of medicines here: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/9633/smpc, marketed by Endo pharmaceuticals (branch based in S Ireland but also in US) and manufactured with same ingredients in US...

Another alternative for those who want to use 1 % gel. From personal experience - I like the fact that Testim is in a screw-topped tube so no faffing around with paper clip and folding over the top of the sachet as with Testogel - which is messier - but it takes far far longer to dry and stays sticky for some time (like Sandrena estradiol gel!) whereas Testogel dries quickly....

Would be good to know if anyone has been prescribed Testim recently on NHS (not privately - as you can get anything privately at a cost ).

Hurdity x

[Tyaca]

Hi Hurdity,

Was changed by dr (studd clinic) on the premise that it was less messy, (!) though I imagine it was a supply issue with the chemist they work with.

I'm 42, post meno, 4 pumps estrogel, 10 x days utro plus the testosterone. Been doing ok til last month. Not perfect but loads better. No deficiencies at last bloods a month ago.

 The dead legged fatigue is such a huge part of things going wrong for me - i just can't access normal life cause I can't do anything. Then I feel like everything is falling apart and it's hard to hold back the depression.   So when it came back over the last week I really started to feel helpless. It never occurred to me that I was getting less testosterone now I'm on tostran. I'm going to contact the dr and check my dosage.  Halving it seems viscous! Especially as I was doing ok at my follow up appmnt. Even if I switch to every other day it will be less than I got before.

I do feel better now theres a chance my mega fatigue might have an identifiable cause. 3 weeks would be a plausible time frame to start to feel some effects of that.


Thanks for your reply Hurdity. Its really appreciated.

[Jaz]

Hi Tyaca

Sorry to hear about your symptoms. Not sure what DOM's are?

If you used Tostran every 3 days this would be 23.33 mg per week (10 mg/3  x7) so yes just over half the amount of testogel. Why have you been changed? I think it's always better to use a 1% gel of tesosterone as it is at a concentration designed for the amount that men use. However that's not to say you will only abrob half - it may well be that you absorb more of it.

The main thing is what are your T levels ( and SHBG) as this should ideally be monitored when on replacement T, to ensure that levels remain within the physiological range for women? Also what other HRT do you take, how old are you etc? You might have said elsewhere?

What about libido/response - that's the classic sign of needing T?

Could your symptoms be due to other things eg vitamin or mineral insufficiencies or other hormonal disturbances eg thyroid? Maybe start another thread if about your general health as this is just about T dosage really!

Hurdity x

Hi Huridity
Just to give background first-  my journey is as follows:
Will be 58 in January
Hysterectomy 2008 (subtotal ovaries & cervix remained)
Meno symptoms started  2013 prescribed Tiblone only used for few weeks - caused further anxiety/symptoms
 Elleste Solo tablets 2, then 3mg -worked well
Symptoms returned 2016 prescribed Evorel patches 75x2= 150 per week as (skin did not absorb well)
(Still on this dose)
Current estrogen levels are 798 pmol/l - said to be normal and have been symptom free for 3.5 years
SHBG 48.0 - said to be normal

However symptoms have returned during last month- disturbed sleep, palpitations, anxiety & low mood. Libido decreased somewhat as was quite high
Waiting times back to Meno clinic was so long I have just been to specialist in private clinic.
She has suggested I have blood test fir testosterone level and then start testosterone hormone.

Can you give me an idea of what is the normal range for testosterone in women?
My gyni said even if the levels come back  fairly normal it's still worth trying as works well for women who have had hysterectomy will help with mood/energy levels.
I eat balanced diet and excercise x2 per week, although work can be stressful I usually bounce back from challenges quite well until this last month.
Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated I have had a quick look on the thread just want to be prepared and was bit concerned Tibolone did  not seem to suit me & was wondering if Testogel sachet 50mg over 10 days may have similar effect which has been suggested
Thanks
Jaz

[Hurdity]

Bump for Rose B

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Hi Huridity
Just to give background first-  my journey is as follows:
Will be 58 in January
Hysterectomy 2008 (subtotal ovaries & cervix remained)
Meno symptoms started  2013 prescribed Tiblone only used for few weeks - caused further anxiety/symptoms
 Elleste Solo tablets 2, then 3mg -worked well
Symptoms returned 2016 prescribed Evorel patches 75x2= 150 per week as (skin did not absorb well)
(Still on this dose)
Current estrogen levels are 798 pmol/l - said to be normal and have been symptom free for 3.5 years
SHBG 48.0 - said to be normal

However symptoms have returned during last month- disturbed sleep, palpitations, anxiety & low mood. Libido decreased somewhat as was quite high
Waiting times back to Meno clinic was so long I have just been to specialist in private clinic.
She has suggested I have blood test fir testosterone level and then start testosterone hormone.

Can you give me an idea of what is the normal range for testosterone in women?
My gyni said even if the levels come back  fairly normal it's still worth trying as works well for women who have had hysterectomy will help with mood/energy levels.
I eat balanced diet and excercise x2 per week, although work can be stressful I usually bounce back from challenges quite well until this last month.
Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated I have had a quick look on the thread just want to be prepared and was bit concerned Tibolone did  not seem to suit me & was wondering if Testogel sachet 50mg over 10 days may have similar effect which has been suggested
Thanks
Jaz

Hi again Jaz

Here is some info on T in women:
https://www.healthline.com/health/womens-health/do-women-have-testosterone#normal-levels

However it is not usually necessary to measure T before prescribing it - the tests are not accurate for women who are low because the test is designed for the levels that are fond in men so not senstivie at the low end of the scale. Many gynaes don;t actually tests before prescribing. It is often advised to test after T replacement to ensure that levels stay within the physiological range for women - even though they are inaccurate - they would probably pick up if too high.

If you have low libido and especially response - and not taking meds that can affect this eg some ADs, or oral oestrogen, and your oestrogen levels are adequate - then doc should be able to prescribe - off-licence. Some docs are not willing to prescribe T at all - even some gynaes I gather.....

Not sure if low T can lead to palpitations,  and the other symptoms you describe though? For me it was defo low libido, absent response, and also lethargy and fatigue combined with muscle pain after exercise and higher than normal exhaustion after exercise.  It is not generally indicated for the latter though - but libido. I think low T can affect mood too though it didn't for me.

I would push for a trial of it rather than wait for (inaccurate) levels?

Testogel sachet - sounds about right. Mine lasts longer than 10 days but my oestrogen levels are lower anyway....

Hurdity x

[Rose B]

Found this info on testosterone dosage for women, on Chelsea and Westminster menopause website. Thought it might be helpful for anyone needing to switch from tostran to testogel

https://www.chelwest.nhs.uk/services/womens-health-services/gynaecology-services/menopause-and-pms-clinics/special-notices

[Hurdity]

Thanks Rose B - very helpful

Hurdity x