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[Lalb1]

Having posted so many times on here I hope I'm not coming across as a complete hypochondriac!

Over the last few months my body hasn't known quite what it's doing next.
Was on Microgynon, after some weird symptoms I took the decision to come off. Had a 5 week pill break but period pains,symptoms and chances of starting a new relationship made me decide to go on a different pill. Was given Loestrin 20, started it a week ago, on the 1st day of period. All was ok till the Thursday when I woke with a calf  cramp, it was so painful. It's still sore and tight, worried myself that it could be a clot! In reality don't think it can be after only 5days on the new pill-in all honesty think it's yet another symptom of the aches ive developed recently.
But did decide to stop the new pill as I was again starting to feel very low,itchy skin,no appetite,headaches,queasy and arm pain aches.
All the reasons I stopped the Microgynon. I know Loestrin is a low dose pill, I can't figure out what it is that I'm reacting to? I feel like I get an allergic reaction with the pill, especially the itchy arms thing.
I feel like I'm waffling on I'm just so fed up feeling yucky.
While I was on the pill free weeks I felt brighter mood wise and no itchy arms.. but other symptoms still there.
I can't get an appointment with the female doc, going to badger them on Monday cos I feel like I'm losing the plot with worrying about all the different things that crop up.
Thanks for listening 😭😥
P.s Was expecting my period to be longer, it wasn't, it was heavier and a lot more painful but now having bleeding again, this was happening from Friday night.

[Daisydot]

Sorry I can't offer any advice Lalb but I do hope it goes well at gp for you,I have also been getting calf cramp in one leg this week but I'm putting it down to something I've eaten or drinking.I do suffer with food allergies or sensitivity maybe your similar anyway check with doc and stop worrying the stress will increase your tension and make things worse,good luck xx

[dangermouse]

Hey, there is a good chance the pill just isn’t strong enough to override your cycle.

I was on Brevinor (30 EE and 500 NOR) for most of my adult life as, unbeknownst to me, I had silent migraines and always felt odd whenever I took a break from it.

Once early peri hit about 13 years ago I started getting problems in the pill break and so stopped for a few years. I generally felt out of sorts but was hard to pin it down to why. Later on 2.5 years ago I became violently ill with extreme nausea where it was like sea sickness on dry land! Finally realised it was hormones and went on Loestrin (20 EE, 1000 NOR). After a week of it getting much worse, the nausea all stopped but I had most of the other symptoms breaking through.

A few months later I finally saw an endocrinologist who diagnosed the migraines (gastric, silent) caused by high oestrogen and she put me on high absorbing compounded progesterone cream. Felt amazing on it but would sometimes have breakthrough nausea around ovulation.

Stopped the cream 6 months ago as all the volatility was hard to cope with (and have wondered if the cream was making it worse) but since then I’ve only had anovulatory cycles and the oestrogen starts surging at Day 2 and I’ve been really bad. My endo and other migraine sufferers have told me that is VERY common as you get closer to menopause as the oestrogen is surging to try to fertilise  the dwindling egg supply. This does not get discussed enough and women are assuming they’re all having low oestrogen symptoms and then adding more to it and making themselves much worse. Unless you suppress the cycle with high oestrogen (pill or HRT) so that your own oestrogen falls much lower, only progesterone will help. I also have been told that Utrogestan does not work to achieve this as it’s so potent (to counteract HRT oestrogen levels).

I went back on Loestrin 10 days ago and felt it kick in after a week but it’s barely made any difference as my hormones are surging so much. Last night in desperation I had a pump of my progesterone cream and I can’t tell you the relief I’ve felt today.

I realise now that the nausea, anxiety, fatigue, bloating etc. will still happen (albeit at a much lower level) whether I have the cream or the pill so am going to get some more cream as it may be easier to control the oestrogen now I’m not ovulating and I feel great today.

Just sharing this so you can see how volatile and severe symptoms of high oestrogen can be (I spent many a day in A&E before I saw the endo to get a drip as could t eat at all). I had also mentally booked myself into Dignitas as I could never have lived with that level of constant nausea.

My endo said the way to know if it’s high oestrogen is if your symptoms are worse mid cycle, around ovulation and many women start feeling rough from Day 2 as oestrogen all kicks in again.

Hope this helps and doesn’t confuse, especially if you feel better off the pill and can just cope until oestrogen falls nearer to menopause.

[knorman]

Dangermouse, I recently asked my Dr (who has been fantastic) if there is such a thing as a transdermal progesterone  and was advised there wasn't. Is your cream one that is applied to the skin, or is it an internal cream?  I hope you don't mind me asking, thank you.

[dangermouse]

Perhaps your doctor meant one that's available on the NHS. There isn't as they only prescribe strong progesterone to dominate strong oestrogens in HRT, otherwise for therapeutic use they can only offer the mini-pill as they don't have a licensed cream. Hopefully that will change as transdermals are more accepted now (like Oestrogel) but depends if NICE will fund therapeutic use. It's much safer than oestrogen (as not a growth hormone) and can protect from potential oestrogen driven cancers better than the pill.

Yes mine is rubbed into the skin like Oestrogel but is a cream so not as gel like and watery. I get mine on private prescription (London Hormone Clinic) but there are some you can get online (NOT the yam creams which are ineffective), which are called Progesterone USP.

[Dancinggirl]

Compounded hormones are available from some alternative therapists as creams but there is a section on this site that warns these types of HRT are not regulated so are therefore not considered safe. It is very unwise to buy hormone remedies online as these will not be properly tested or regulated.
Utrogeston can be used vaginally (though not licensed here in the uk) so can be technically transdermal. There are also two types of combined HRT patches that contain progesterone,  so these are transdermal. Your GP doesn't know what he is talking about.
There is a cream called Serene( non prescription) that claims to contain a progesterone and claims to be good for meno symptoms but the dose is so low it is not going to be effective for protecting the womb lining.
The peri stage of meno can be particularly challenging but a low dose of HRT can help to balance things or the BCP Qlaira is sometimes helpful as it has bio identical oestrogen. It tends to be the fluctuating oestrogen that causes the flushes, headaches and low mood etc. Some women find progesterone helpful as it can give a sedative effect.
DG x

[dangermouse]

With therapeutic progesterone (compounded or online) its more like a herb, vitamin or food supplement so it doesn't need regulating but yes defo no good for opposing HRT oestrogen. This thread is about its use instead of HRT so apologies if that wasn't made clear to Knorman. It's very effective though and I think the Serenty cream is also used to stop ovulation/periods for younger women for pre-fertility reasons.

Compounded oestrogen would be a different story (as oestrogen can cause tissue growth) but I don't know anything about those. I suspect they are much lower dose or combined with very high prog but only doctors could prescribe those.

[knorman]

Thank you DG and Dangermouse. I have been having problems with oral HRT (which worked brilliantly for 3.5 weeks and then gave me a dry, burning mouth and tongue). Tried a patch which did the same thing, but have the osetrogel/ustrogen (?!)  to try once mouth issues have been investigated with dermatology and facial maximillo.  Just very nervous about taking a tablet again in the future, which is why a gel or cream is very appealing for the progesterone.  I finally reached menopause at 56 last October and my symptoms have become worse.  I was hoping everything would improve once I passed that magic point!

[dangermouse]

Ah yes, in which case you would have to take the strong progesterones like Utrogestan (although you can take vaginally) or Provera. I tried the latter to see if similar to the creams but it knocked me out as if I’d taken a sleeping tablet! So, therapeutic I guess if you have sleep issues and I think some women feel better on the prog days even with the strong ones. Or you could try the combined patches that DG mentioned.

The progesterone cream is the missing piece of jigsaw for some women, like Vitamin D (also a hormone you can buy off the shelf).

[Hurdity]

Having posted so many times on here I hope I'm not coming across as a complete hypochondriac!

Over the last few months my body hasn't known quite what it's doing next.
Was on Microgynon, after some weird symptoms I took the decision to come off. Had a 5 week pill break but period pains,symptoms and chances of starting a new relationship made me decide to go on a different pill. Was given Loestrin 20, started it a week ago, on the 1st day of period. All was ok till the Thursday when I woke with a calf  cramp, it was so painful. It's still sore and tight, worried myself that it could be a clot! In reality don't think it can be after only 5days on the new pill-in all honesty think it's yet another symptom of the aches ive developed recently.
But did decide to stop the new pill as I was again starting to feel very low,itchy skin,no appetite,headaches,queasy and arm pain aches.
All the reasons I stopped the Microgynon. I know Loestrin is a low dose pill, I can't figure out what it is that I'm reacting to? I feel like I get an allergic reaction with the pill, especially the itchy arms thing.
I feel like I'm waffling on I'm just so fed up feeling yucky.
While I was on the pill free weeks I felt brighter mood wise and no itchy arms.. but other symptoms still there.
I can't get an appointment with the female doc, going to badger them on Monday cos I feel like I'm losing the plot with worrying about all the different things that crop up.
Thanks for listening 😭😥
P.s Was expecting my period to be longer, it wasn't, it was heavier and a lot more painful but now having bleeding again, this was happening from Friday night.

It's probably difficult to say how far along the menopausal journey you are since you have been on the pill for some time - and only had 5 weeks off it? However it sounds like you could possibly be allergic to something in the pills. The itchiness with low oestrogen obviously won't be a factor in your case as you are getting plenty of oestrogen.

However it could be that you are allergic to the progestogen in the pills - as you mentioned ( in other posts) that you are generally allergic to lots of things? There have been women on  here who have had similar reaction to progestogens (itching and rashes even). It also may well be that the high dose of synthetic oestrogen as found in these pills no longer suits you so as mentioned I think in past threads there are others you could try - QLAIRA (which has different doses of oestrogen throughout the month but only 2 tablet free days), and ZOELY which has a constant dose of oestrogen and still only 4 tablet free days. The oestrogen on both these is estradiol - the same as our own oestrogen. The progestogen in QLAIRA  is one of the more modern types so may be less associated with allergy.  maybe ask to try one of these gentelr pills - but it sometimes takes longer than a month to completely suppress your cycle.

The other alternative is HRT but maybe if you are ovulating regularly this might not yet be the best solution? Difficult to say without knowing what your periodos would be doing.

Sorry if this sounds confusing but it really does sound as though this pill (and the Microg..) does not/no longer suits you - if you think your reactions are due to the pill rather than something in your diet or environmental factors?

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

knorman - maybe start anothe thread about progesterone and creams as this is off topic from Lalb's original post which wasn't specifically about progesterone? - I could comment here but don't want to sidetrack from Lalb's question, and it is a topic which needs some discussion and clarification!

Hurdity x

[knorman]

Thank you Hurdity x