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[CLKD]

Come in Eliza H >wave<

[Rustysmum]

Shadyglade that is an excellent point. For me one of the main reasons I have always been reluctant to go the HRT route is what would happen when I come off. The first gynaecologist I went to said that I would have all the same symptoms as menopause is basically your body trying to adapt to the reduction of hormones which is exactly what would happen when you stop the HRT. Some stories from ladies who have actually been through this process would , I agree, be very helpful. Being quite old now for starting HRT (57) my body got a huge shock when trying the full dose of the Oestrogel and testosterone and I felt dreadful. My Oestrogen was so low it was undetectable in the testing and I feel it was too much to start straight away on three pumps. This seemed to show me that my body was already part way through the process and that I would be back to square one if I did get my body to adjust to the high levels of HRT and then withdraw again at a later date. I know for many that HRT has been amazing and therefore the decision to continue is an easy one. I have tried four kinds of various types and not been so lucky.

[dangermouse]

I suspect for some women it's getting through the body's adaption period, which then creates a new balance once you're there, and for others their oestrogen levels balance out too low so they feel they need to add more to top up to be at the same level as the first group.

The pill or HRT (if your hormones aren't too volatile) can also sustain you better through the early adaption phase. Many women have reported that stopping their HRT later means that their hormones will immediately fall rather than surge about for a few more years, as it may take another 10 years or more after periods stop for the oestrogen to settle.

[Wilks]

This is an interesting discussion. As the menopause affects everyone differently, each of us has to find what helps for us. However, for me, HRT isn't about getting through a few years of hot flushes and mood swings. The problems caused by lack of oestrogen are permanent. I'm 49 with a family and a full-time job, a lifetime of keeping fit and eating healthily. I am not ready to accept joint pain, vaginal atrophy, brain fog, cystitis, loss of libido, exhaustion, brittle bones, and depression for the rest of my life, and I will fight every step of the way to have a decent quality of life for as long as I can. For me, that means HRT.

[Dancinggirl]

Wilks - you have summed it up perfectly. HRT isn't right for everyone but for so many it does give quality of life. As, when or if one stops HRT, like so many things, how one feels will vary - some crash, some have a bit of trouble for a while and for others (like me, after 25 years of HRT) the benefits of HRT were being outweighed by the side effects.
Most treatments have side effects and consequences  - I have developed awful digestive problems as a result of PPI drugs and these are dished out routinely by GPs and can even be bought over the counter - nobody tells you the awful problems one gets when trying to come off these PPIs!!??
WE have choices but we need to be informed so we make the right choices.  I want to be treated with respect and understanding by my doctors and have full information.  DG x

[Daisydot]

I took hrt for a couple of years after surgery.i tried two years without initially then two years with as sweats at 43 were unbearable,I then tried again without for 5 years,my health deteriorated terribly,all the usual symptoms of meno and some I never knew you could get with meno,I made the best descision I've ever made going back on it,stuff future problems,after a severe injury I've learned the hard way to live for today and In the present and if need be I'll deal with the future - in the future.
none of us can predict what's in store for us so I guess the secret is think positive and live in the present as best you can,I'm just grateful to be here even with my unpredictable issues lol.
Bless you if you can cope without hrt but some of us just can't.life deserves to be lived.xx

[CLKD]

Quality of Life Girls, Quality of Life - after all that bus might be along B4 any of us get ill from HRT!

[Dancinggirl]

Stellajane - all you say is soooo true.  I tried a very low dose Amitriptyline to help with back pain and the first 2 weeks were OK but by week 3 the side effects were horrid so I stopped taking it - it took about 4 weeks to get over the withdrawal - the GP didn't warn me about the side effects or the withdrawal problems! 
The lobby against HRT, for all kinds of very spurious reasons, is still so strong and GPs very often tell patients that HRT will just delay the inevitable which is simply not true. What is inevitable is that without oestrogen the body does suffer and, as you rightly point out Stellajane, clearly some women's bodies can compensate for oestrogen deficiency better than others. DG xxx

[Shadyglade]

Be careful not to generalise DG.  Women who don't take HRT do so for all sorts of reasons, and are not spurious but genuine and authentic. I personally wanted my help my body find it's own way through the meno, using more natural and holistic methods.  I did suffer, but from what I read here on a daily basis, so do many women who are on HRT.   We all choose are own path. 

[Dancinggirl]

If you read what I have said carefully, I am not generalising at all - there is still a very strong lobby against HRT. I was not referring to women who don't wish to take HRT - of course it is a choice and we all have to find our own way. I was referring to the press and many in the medical profession who deem HRT dangerous and unnecessary for the wrong reasons. Too many women are sent away from a GP appointment having been told to ‘ride the storm' or given a very scary talk about how dangerous HRT is. 
I believe HRT is simply one of the many strategies we need to deploy to get us through this challenging time. I am 62 now and not on systemic HRT any more (had premature meno so had to have HRT for nearly 25 years and was so often told I was taking something ‘dangerous') so I have made the choice to go forward without HRT - although I would not be without the Vagifem which is a good preventative against the horrors of urogenital atrophy. I cope with the poor sleep, flushes and awful fatigue by tailoring my life around all these symptoms - I have given up full time work because I simply couldn't do it any more due to these meno symptoms but I was also struggling with the  progesterone of HRT as I aged - so, for me, the natural way is certainly not easy.     
It is, however, very tough to be judged as being ‘weak' for using HRT or, as a practise nurse commented, “using HRT to stay young looking” !!
Women have fought and still have to fight really hard to get help with menopause problems, so when someone tells us HRT is merely delaying the inevitable or will be dangerous for our health this is very wrong.
We are all different and those women who are lucky enough not to suffer badly with menopause symptoms can 'sometimes' sound very dismissive and sanctimonious and those of us who suffer have to smile sweetly and turn green (or should I say bright red) with envy that we are not like them.  DG x

[Janouska]

Hello,
I have returned to the forum after many years..I am in such a bad way (very little sleep, sweats/chills, exhaustion and memory really bad) that could not work out how to post a message but found this thread which is relevant. Thank you for the comments on here.

I went on hrt when 47 (am now nearly 59) so,following advice of GP and nurse, have made several attempts to come off over the last few years as told I had been on long time and that the benefits could now be outweighed by risks. I have been taking reduced dose since last August, gradually getting the dose down to about 3 days out of 7 up until Christmas, and nothing since, as thought doing okish (sleep has been poor for years anyway, even without hot flushes and being on the hrt) and had some hot weeks where assumed had a bug.   

However over the last month have got increasingly worse, so back with the sweats - at least 10 heavy ones a day and through the night. Plus have had shingles, more hair loss again, eyes too dry for my contact lenses, painful knees, ...the list goes on, but probably the worst is the short term memory loss - finding it hard to read a book, forgetting the names of my own team members at work, forgetting conversations I have had, making mistakes, being complained about now to the point that may have to give up work. It feels like more than just bad nights causing this and am finding it scary.  I think it is mostly post menopause symptoms again (especially as had a smear test from hell. Never having one again (and wont be called for one now am 59) -not been painful before. I could hardly walk home. Then two days later had period like cramps that lasted a week.

All that said two positives -no migraines, and upset stomachs (sort of IBS) have reduced.

I have finally relented and called GP surgery. I asked for nurse (as she was sympathetic about me going down the hrt route as she had also done so reluctantly). However she would not prescribe hrt again but is sending me for blood tests (not sure what for - had a load a few months back due to swollen ankle/foot and tiredness).

I dont think the blood results will show anything but am worried that if I can't get through this (am I just at the peak of it and will get better soon?!) I don't know what I will do. I have a holiday booked in June (my first abroad for a long time) that I am considering cancelling and just losing the £.1500 (insurance does not cover menopause!).  When I get really hot I vomit, so don't want to be doing that when away, it is bad enough at home (and work).

Any advice welcome.   I feel like an idiot and that I am making a fuss and should just get on with it. I expect my boss (who is 20 years younger) thinks the same.

Janouska

   

[Shadyglade]

Hi Shadyglade - you chose "to suffer"

Now that is a bit naught Stellajane.  That is not what I said at all.  Yes I did have times when I suffered BUT many more times when I managed pretty well.  The same also seems to be true for the HRT ladies.

This idea that if you chose not to take HRT you are stupid has to be challenged. I would not dream of saying the reverse to HRT users.

[Janouska]

Thanks Stellajane

I agree there is no absolute ideal solution, I had side effects with the hrt -just taking the pill each day I always got a big sweat in the morning, and did not solve the early waking etc. but on balance what I am suffering now is far far worse.

I was going to ask GP whether patch route may be better (if I get to see my GP as surgery in a bit of crisis at moment, which was another reason for asking for nurse as they offer phone consultations). I have no partner so am not concerned about the vaginal atrophy aspect - it was just evidence of the impact of reduced hrt. as if I needed any proof!

I would like to add that I agree - going on hrt or coming off it is really not an easy choice. None of us know when we hit menopause how long the adjustment will take -months, years.. Just as I don't know now if or when I will ever get over the post menopausal symptoms. I just have to balance the pros and cons. I really only came off because of my age, and because my mother died following a series of strokes and narrowed arteries (undiagnosed -only found that out at autopsy) so part of me has a fear of that.   But fear of losing my mental capacity greater and losing my job outweighs all of those fears in the end. I want to enjoy my life now.

Good luck to all struggling with these choices. x

 

[Dancinggirl]

To go back to the theme of this thread, ‘future problems from HRT that are not made clear' - this implies that it is HRT that 'is responsible' or causes the symptoms that we experience when we come off HRT and this is simply not the case.  It's the withdrawal of hormones, more specifically oestrogen, that causes the symptoms - so using HRT has nothing to do with how we feel when we come off it.  HRT can maintain a balance which gives a good quality of life for many through years before retirement that can be tough.  How long the symptoms will last nobody can tell us but the consequences of oestrogen deficiency goes on regardless.  This is not to say we should all be using HRT BUT there does need to be a better approach by the medical profession that allows women to make an informed decision about whether they should use HRT or not and for how long.  IF they want us to work till 66 or longer then, for many, HRT is their only option - and HRT it still far from ideal.  DG x

[Dancinggirl]

Precisely Stellajane. "this is probably down to oestrogen loss but we'll run some tests to rule out any other cause then you can make a decision about which route you may wish to consider".
A good common sense approach.  DG x