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[Yammy1]

Hope you feel better soon, and you find something that works x

[racjen]

Because I know that Valium and the one which I take 'as necessary' work, I have never needed to take more than recommended.

CLKD, it's widely recognised that one of the big drawbacks of benzodiazapines is that you can quite quickly become tolerant to a given dose and have to keep increasing it to get the same effect. It's not a question of believing in it or not, it's a genuine physical phenomenon. I think you're quite unusual in that you're able to take it long term at the same dose with no problems, that's not the general experience. I'm really glad it works so well for you, but as I've said in the past, diazepam and allied drugs need to be used with extreme caution, they're very addictive and very hard to withdraw from.

[racjen]

Ooops sorry, can't work out how to quote another post and then return to my own voice! Hope above post makes sense...

[CLKD]

I thought that I had posted an answer ......... then dashed for my evening meal and found it's not stuck, now I can't remember.  Bugga .....

OK - it's a shame that the medical profession don't advice users of Valium-type medications: to allow the 10mg to work: not to 'panic' and think 'this isn't going to work' but to give it time.  Years ago people weren't advised that these can be addictive.  This is why I can 'allow' the emergency med to work: which it does, either knocking me out almost immediately or relaxing me within 25-40 mins. of swallowing it.  My brain does sometimes think 'I may need more as I still feel ill' but I have to remind myself that it WILL work.  This is when I ought to do the relaxation therapy which I tried to learn in the 1990s, however   

I am certainly not 'unusual', I've spoken to many users in recent years who have been taught to let this type of medication to 'work'.  It's because the medical profession have finally caught up with the possible effects, fortunately.  They also understand 'bounce back' anxiety more, when people are trying to wean off various types of medication but go back to taking it because they are scared that they are already addicted.  I had these dreads when weaning off an AD in 2002.

How has today been racjen?

[racjen]

It's not that I think 'this isn't going to work' and so take more, it's that I've found that after several (not necessarily consecutive) days of taking 5mg and finding it works, I can take it expecting that it will work and find that it simply doesn't - I assume that that means I'm developing a tolerance to that dosage. You're right about GPs though - I've had preciously zero advice from doctors about how to take diazepam safely...

Today I got up at 5.45am so as to avoid lying there awake waiting for the fear to build. Kept myself busy for 3 hours and it certainly wasn't as bad, but by 9am I was still feeling pretty anxious so went out for a long walk which helped (as it usually does). Trouble is, I can  use that as a strategy while I'm off sick, but I don't think I could cope with getting up at 5.30am and going for an hours walk every morning if I was back at work.

[Hurdity]

Hi racjen - sorry to hear you are still suffering. Just a point re betablockers since you mention that they are different. I am sure you are aware that these are not anti-depressants nor anti-anxiety medication but are drugs used for heart problems and to reduce blood pressure. They are also prescribed (it seems very widely to menopausal women) to control the physical symptoms of anxiety ie rapid heart rate, dizziness and related symptoms. Although I understand they are not addictive in the same way as benzos I think the body can get used to them - so that if you take them for a long time and then stop, obviously your heart/blood pressure will increase/rise again, and I remember reading the difficult experience of one member trying to stop them in favour of HRT - and in fact coming off them is advised to be done slowly. You might want to bear this in mind if you see them as a temporary medication?

If you do a search from the home page of the forum "benzo addiction" then some posts from other members will come up on this topic - there are some members with experience of this.

Sorry I haven't been able to help you but I hope your symptoms improve anyway.

Hurdity x

[racjen]

Thanks for the advice about beta-blockers Hurdity - once again, nothing from the prescribing GP about any of this, they just hand them out like smarties. I know as much as I want to know already about benzo addiction, having been down that path myself a few years ago (in fact during my first, perimenopausal experience of hormonal anxiety). Once I'd finally got off them I swore I'd never touch them again, but it shows the degree of desperation I'm now feeling that I've had to give in and resort to them again, with great caution, because it seems nothing else works for me and at times the anxiety is unbearable.

Dr. Gray is very non-committal about whether getting my estrogen level much much higher than the current 250ish will alleviate the anxiety, but I understand Prof. Studd advocates levels of 800 - 1000 in these kind of cases. She maintains that that sort of level would only be achievable using estrogen implants, but I thought Prof. Studd generally prescribed Estrogel so now don't know what to think.

[CLKD]

BBs even out blood pressure where required.  They were used by sports men/women for years to ease those anxiety surges that can upset competitors.  Certainly Propranolol gave me my Life back - why would the body get used to them as they are specifically for blood pressure and found to help some with anxiety?  I've had them since 2002 and never needed to up the dosage in order to control symptoms.  In fact, due to a background headache I have now cut the dose to 20mg at night.  Got rid of the 'hung over' effect thus far  .  Didn't have problems cutting the dose in half.

Could you send an e-mail or phone Prof Studd for advice?  Maybe your GP doesn't like to use high dose of oestrogen? 

That early morning anxiety is AWFUL  .  I have found that eating every 3 hours 24/7 helps a lot.

[racjen]

Hi CKLD, Dr Gray isn't my GP, she's a specialist I've been seeing privately in Plymouth because my GP is completely hopeless. She does do high dose estrogen - I'm currently on Evorel 2 x 100 patches - but when I asked her about getting up to 800-1000 she just said an implant would be necessary. Maybe I'll pursue it further in the New Year. Currently finding your suggestion of 80mg Propranol at night and 40mg in the morning is helping a bit, so thanks for that. I'm struggling to eat at all at the moment so I might struggle with every 3 hours, but I'll give it a go! x

[CLKD]

AAAHHHH - I hate that not being able to eat.  Been there  and once my appetite disappears I get scared that I will never eat again  .  That's why I have dried fruits and nuts, Dextrose tablets, ginger biscuits, Rich Tea biscuits to hand.  Nibbling. Also Bovril in hot water.  I have to eat B4 my body feels hungry or I get too queasy even to look at food.  Pancakes are a good standby once my appetite returns, mix will keep in the fridge for 2-3 days.

[racjen]

The anxiety was already affecting my appetite, and then amitryptiline killed it stone dead (which is the opposite of what they tell you will happen). I'm not the biggest person to start with, really can't afford to lose a lot of weight but I'm already gluten-free and try very hard to avoid sugar so biscuits,cakes etc. are pretty much out. I try to go for high fat things like nuts, cheese etc. Because of my cancer diagnosis I was eating a huge amount of fruit and veg but that's what I'm really struggling to manage right now, just have to take vitamins and not worry too much I guess xxx

[CLKD]

Don't stick to meal 'times' either, graze, nibble, chew ......... nuts is good!!

[racjen]

Peanut butter and bananas are my staple foods....

Went back to GP today and got enough Propranolol so that I can take 80mg at bedtime and 40mg in the morning till after Christmas, plus have back-up diazepam for the really bad times. Think that's all I can do for now, going back to review it all in January. My big hope is that much higher estrogen levels will eventually help and also allow me to take testosterone successfully. Otherwise i may be stuck like this for the duration. Thanks for all your advice CKLD and others xxx

[CLKD]

That will ease symptoms.   ......... and breath.   My singing teacher often said that humans don't breath correctly, we don't breath in deeply enough - which is why singing can help over-all health.

So at this time of year, ? sing ?  . 

I may be out of wifi range until the New Year but I will be thinking about U!

[racjen]

Ha, love it - funnily enough singing is my main hobby, my choir had a Xmas lunch out today and we sang in the restaurant! Have a great Xmas xxx