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[Roseycheeks]

 Hi Ladies,
                 I am wondering if anyone out there is trying a combi of the above, Estrogel and Red Clover- a natural plant-based oestrogen? I was on Estrogel for two months and started to feel some side effects, such as popping ears/ear infections and weird headaches. Due to water retention perhaps? Got my Estradiol levels checked and they'd gone from 44 p/cols to 778!! I think I had overdosed on the Estrogel to be honest. I lost my mother over the summer and was applying 3/4 squirts a day, thinking that the palpitations I was getting was as a result of low oestrogen, when it was possibly caused by high oestrogen levels and stress hormones:(((( I am feeling better in general, but am now a little wary of Estrogel and only have 2/3 squirts a week now. Didn't take any atal from 18 August until 19th Sept!!  ???I will be getting my levels tested again in October, but in the meantime, I have invested in red clover capsules from H&B- good quality ones and have been taking them since Monday of this week along with soya milk/yoghurt and tofu for the last couple of weeks. So far, I have avoided any major hot flushes, but I do feel that anxious dread of them starting again if my oestrogen levels dip too low. Grateful  for any insights, yours, not exactly in the clover! Roseycheeks xx

[Hurdity]

Hi Roseycheeks -

I am so sorry to hear about your mother ....

Also sorry I don't have time to look any of this up but I would be wary of taking both oestrogel and red clover together and instead one or the other. From the top of my head I do remember reading that they may compete for oestrogen receptors - which would affect the efficacy of one or the other (but not harmful) - but can't remember the details! Hopefully someone else might know or be able to look it up!

Hurdity x

[Roseycheeks]

Hi Hurdity, I will look into the competition side of things- am staving off flashes with the red clover- think it's going to be interesting when I get levels checked soon- will try not to use the estrogel unless things take a turn. Thanks for your time on this 👍👍

[Dancinggirl]

Roseycheeks
I assume you have had a hysterectomy?
My thoughts are this: you have been messing with dosage so this will throw you off balance and this will bring strange side effects. If you are just using oestrogen alone then the benefits far outweigh the negatives and Oestrogel will give you far more benefits than Red Clover can.
I am very post meno and having used HRT for over 25 years (due to premature meno) I decided I would stop HRT last year  as I still have my womb and the progesterone effects were a ‘pain' in every way(I am 61 now). 
I am taking Red Clover now(largest dose) and I think it has helped a little with flushes although when I am stressed the flushes come fierce and fast. I think one needs to take the Red Clover for quite some time for any benefits to be felt and like most things the benefits will vary from women to women and will also depend on lifestyle and genetic factors. I am mainly taking the Red Clover in the hope it will benefit my bones and heart. I also take calcium, vitamin D and Omega 3 oils.
I am using local oestrogen, Vagifem, to help with VA and bladder problems.
If you are in your 50s then I would strongly suggest you continue with the Oestrogel until at least 60 to help prevent bone loss, protect you heart and reduce the likely onset of VA and bladder issues.
A consistent dose of one or possibly two pumps per day is going to give your the consistency you need - I think too much oestrogen can bring some nasty side effects so when you were using 3-4 pumps per day I'm not surprised you felt odd.
Why not use one pump of gel per day for 4 weeks and see how you feel?  DG x

[Mary G]

DG, you should look into the new progesterone free/bleed free HRT called Duavive. 

[Dancinggirl]

Thank you Mary G
I will give it some thought. In my experience there isn't any HRT that doesn't give side effects and for me the side effects seem to get worse these days - my body simply won't tolerate things so well any more.  I'll see how others get along with it  before hot footing back to my gynae.
DG x