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[Wantmylifeback]

Hello ladies

Can you take progesterone cream with oestrogen only HRT and coil?

WMLB

[Hurdity]

Hi Wantmylifeback

OTC Progesterone cream contains very little progesterone so it won't really do anything anyway I don't think. Why do you want to use it in addition to having the coil? Your uterus will be protected through this and there is also some systemic absorption of levonorgestrel so you have a progestogen in your body as well as the uterus. Are you post-menopause?

Hurdity x

[Wantmylifeback]

Hi Hurdity

Having been taken off the combined pill which had me in the best place I've been for 2 years and now on 2mg elleste solo and struggling. I'm just confused about why I felt ok on the BCP but don't feel as good on the oestrogen only and the only thing I could come up with was the progesterone in the BCP? My brain is completely fogged up and my anxiety has returned.

WMLB

[Hurdity]

Hi again

I can't remember where you are in menopause and how old - but if the BCP suited you  and you are feeling rough now - it could be because the BCP was controlling your cycle whereas the Mirena does not usually prevent ovulation except I gather during the first year. Therefore you will still be experiencing some of the hormonal fluctuations of peri-menopause if you are still peri-menopausal that is?

Also the BCP is quite high dose of synthetic oestrogens whereas Elleste contains estradiol. Have you thought of changing to a transdermal oestrogen like a patch or gel which may give you better absorption if lower oestrogen (than the BCP) is the cause of your symptoms?

Also have you thought of going back onto some sort of Pill? Sorry can't remember your story? There a couple of ones that are similar to HRT -  the oestrogen is lower dose but you wouldn't get the cyclical hormonal fluctuations in the same way - and they would control your bleeding if that's why you started the Mirena?

It could also be that the progestogen in the Mirena is giving you these side effects ( depending how long you've had this one?).

These are a few random thoughts - hopefully gives you something to think about? But it is extremely unlikely to be due to low progesterone - especially if you are also ovulating as you will still be producing your own as well as getting extra (syntheitc) prog from the Mirena.

Hurdity x

[Wantmylifeback]

Hi Hurdity

I was taken off the BCP due to migraines with aura. I am 42 and have been peri for the last 3 years. I can cope with lose dose venlafaxine. I am very sensitive to changes and medication. Bleeding has never really been an issue as I've always had a mirena but the hormonal fluctuations are awful. I just feel like a shell of myself, I am constantly spaced and head foggy.

WMLB

[Pollyanna]

Iwantmylifeback

I just noticed this link and progesterone cream and thought I'd share my experience of it.

In the UK the stuff you buy over the counter, is very weak (unless there are newer ones available), but I ordered mine from the U.S via Amazon.  It was recommended to me by a naturopath friend of mine.  I've since heard of clinics in London who sell it but it has to be sold (in the UK) through a naturopath practitioner.   I bought mine through iHerb.   Just noticed it's at a lower price now.   

I was skeptical but all i can say is that I noticed changes within a few days.  My hair is always an indicator and with progesterone it is bouncy and stops falling out.  In addition, the chin hair that I despise, stops growing.   At that time I was on very low dose Estradot (25mcg).    You need to use only a tiny amount of the cream, and I think I gave it up because I noticed mood drop again.  Too tired/lethargic.   

I threw it away which was silly because I'd like to give it a try again, if only for my hair health.   Oestrogen only makes my hair brittle and wooly and it falls out. 

As it's on special offer, I think I'll buy some more of it. 

Anyway... ha... it's so much of a balancing act and as you know, we're all different.   

Just wanted to let you know my experience though.   

[dangermouse]

It's fine to take the cream with very low estradiol (as would be prescribed by a private doctor rather than NHS) otherwise it's not potent enough to protect the womb lining as NHS oestrogen replacement is very potent too.

They are making better creams now due to scientific advancement with absorption ingredients so this may change in time, just make sure a medical doctor prescribes the two together.

[Hurdity]

None of these progesterone creams should be even with low dose of estradiol like 25 mcg, as the dosage is low and is insufficient to protect the endometrium. This is the case even with private practitioners of "bio-identical hormone replacement therapy" (BHRT) where there is no guarantee of getting the correct dose. None of the US nor UK medical bodies approve their use and members should not attempt to self-medicate.

Women who want to try them just to see if they help either on their own or in addition to any HRT they are using - well that's up to you, although there is not really the evidence for their effectiveness on menopausal symptoms.

Oestrogen is important for maintaining healthy hair, as is thyroid hormone ( and other vitamins and minerals).

Hurdity x

[Pollyanna]

Progesterone is not only to protect uterus. There are many other benefits of this hormone for women. Too much oestrogen alone can cause raised anxiety but a little progesterone will help that. 

You are entitled to your opinion but as with most things, tjete will always be arguments for and against.

In Germany and Scandinavian countries, compounded BHRT is very popular.

I could then go on about immunotherapy and it's benefits In cancer patients, many of have been given up on in the UK, because what is available here, wasn't enough to help them.

I know of someone who was given months to live but with crowdfunding is having treatment in a German clinic.  Most of her tumours have gone.

There are no guarantees with anything but if the Individual is intelligent and weighs up the pros and cons then there is a lot out there that can help.

Scientific studies cost money which is why there is little evidence in terms of BHRT, but I hav a doctor friend who specialises now only in BHRT and he knows more about it than we do.

I keep an open mind to all things but I can most certainly say that when I have used progesterone cream, I notice a difference.  And it's not placebo.

[Wantmylifeback]

Pollyanna

What is BHRT?

WMLB

[Pollyanna]

Hi Iwantmylifeback

It stands for Bio-identical Hormone Replacement Therapy.   It can be confusing and it was to me until I explored it more, and went to the Marion Gluck Clinic in London..... but there are other private consultants in the UK who specialise in this. 

If you want to know more about it,  have a look at their website.  It's described beautifully.   It's not for everyone, but at least it gives those ladies who haven't had much luck with NHS medications, an alternative option.   

Not to confuse you too much, you can get Bio identical oestrogen on the NHS, if you are without a uterus.  It comes in patches and gel.   However, the private clinics will consult you, look at hormone blood tests, and look at your history from the age of menstruation, and childbirth (if you had children), and then make up a private prescription, bespoke for you, which is made up by a lab.   The prescription can be made up of oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone and sometimes DHEA.  It comes 'compounded' in either cream or lozenge form.   

Like anything, it's trial and error, and they sometimes need to tweak the amounts in the prescription which can mean a few consultations.   

The doctor I saw there, was an NHS GP as well, but she specialises in this area of medicine.   

[Hurdity]

This topic is always controversial 

As Pollyanna says, “bio-identical” oestrogen ie estradiol - is available on NHS – but not just estradiol but progesterone (as Utrogestan). They are more commonly referred to by the medical profession now as BODY-identical hormones ie structurally identical to the hormones our own bodies make. The only hormone not easily available on NHS in UK is testosterone – but increasingly can be prescribed. BHRT – or “bio-identical hormone therapy” using compounded hormones - is not approved by NHS and is very expensive. Clinics like the Marion Gluck Clinic are shockingly expensive and from what I remember she is not even a medical doctor let alone a gynaecologist.

Unfortunately the BHRT and compounding pharmacies make a lot of money out of women at this time of their lives! They are common in US due to their different health-care system (although not approved there either) but the publicity surrounding the treatment and unfortunate promotion of it by celebs in such papers as Daily Mail – means that it is becoming more popular here – especially amongst the rich – who would seek out and pay for individualised treatment ( nothing wrong with individualised treatment!).

The best explanation and discussion about this (BHRT) is by Dr Currie on this website where she wrote a blog about it recently and explains it all much better than I can:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/pdf/article%20Bio%20identicals%202017.pdf

...here also are a few more links about the practice of "Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy" :

http://www.menopause.org/publications/clinical-practice-materials/bioidentical-hormone-therapy/compounded-bioidentical-hormones-what%27s-the-harm-
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hormone-replacement-therapy/Pages/Alternatives.aspx#bio-identical
https://www.menopause.org.au/hp/information-sheets/212-bioidentical-hormones-for-menopausal-symptoms
https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm049311.htm

If you want to try progesterone itself as you were asking about in your first post (rather than the synthetic version you are getting from the Mirena coil), then you might be better off using Utrogestan instead of the coil – although maybe you are using the coil for contraception or because of fibroids or heavy bleeding? What symptoms are you still concerned about?

.... my comments meant to be helpful and an explanation – everyone is free to follow whatever path suits them! However I do feel for all of those women who may be desperate for treatment and think that the right HRT solution is beyond their financial means - hence my response

Hurdity x 

[Pollyanna]

Hurdity.

Are you a doctor?

[dangermouse]

ALL private healthcare is expensive, including Prof Studd who charges a lot more than Marion Gluck or Dr Jan Toledano from the London Hormone Clinic.

Complementary therapy is also expensive and the only way to get discounted treatment is by subsidised NHS services (although still paid for through taxes).

I'm about to post about non-NHS service in the Alternatives forum which you will find relates to this.

[Pollyanna]

Yes Dangermouse, it is expensive. But I had my blood tests done through my GP, and so the initial consult fee was, I think, £150...,,can't remember exactly. The hormones from the private lab were £90 for about three months worth.

A male friend of mine was treated there too. The clinic treats men and women of all ages.

I'd like to just say, that on all forums, there will be many different types of women. Some have very strong views based on what they have experienced. Some will have a prejudice with anything alternative.

I have the view that if someone has good results from a complementary or alternative treatment, then I'm very pleased for them. I have an open mind to most things.

I try my utmost not to give advice and it can be unwelcome when others do. Unless its requested of course.

The whole point i feel, is to share personal experiences. We are all intelligent adults and our bodies all react differently to others.

The Marion Gluck clinic is quite famous now. She is a doctor and specialist in obgyn, then went on to open her clinic around ten years ago. Her qualifications are on LinkedIn. She has worked in Sydney and Germany, before coming to London.

She has three other doctors working from her clinic. I was going to try Prof Studd first of all but his fees are ridiculously high by comparison and personally, I felt I wanted to see a woman who had a more contemporary and holistic view of women's health.

My experiences with my NHS practice have been appalling and (apart from the fab Jan at Oxford Brooks), have taught me that they haven't a clue about treating women as individuals, and looking at their history from starting periods, through pregnancy, and then menopause. Some GP's would rather wait until there was a serious problem and treat that (when the damage has been done), than look to improve the quality of a woman's health, therefore preventing problems occurring, as much as one can.  Mine hadn't a clue what to do for me. Luckily, I'm proactive and have pushed for things but you shouldn't have to adopt that approach.

I may go back to the Gluck clinic if I hit a stone wall with NHS, as at least you're treated as an intelligent woman there, and not an idiot.

Again, that's only my experience where I live.