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[lesley998]

Hello everyone
I've posted a number of times about the terrible morning anxiety (morning dreads) and panic I have been having on and off since starting peri abiut six years ago.  Things are starting to get much, much worse and I genuinely fear for myself.  I've realised that it come in cycles of around two to three months (but getting shorter) then it starts all over again.  In the middle of the cycle is the worst most debilitating anxiety/depression I have ever felt.  I call it The Madness.  How original.  The Madness lasts around three weeks. 

It starts with carb, chocolate cravings but feeling mentally well. Then I start waking with full on cortisol rushes, crippling anxiety, nervous stomach, paralysing fear over nothing.  I have nothing to be frightened or depressed about.  This lasts up to three weeks. Then I slowly come out of it and the cycle starts all over again.   

It's so hard to explain how this feels.  I get the feeling my GP thinks I am a neurotic, over indulged, dried up old woman and I've stopped asking his advice.  Im thinking about consulting someone privately but don't know whether I should see a gynocologist, endocrinologist, or psychiatrist.   I'm posting below what I wrote in my meno diary to see if anyone can identify...


"Waking with severe anxiety again. Feels better as day goes on.   I've started calling it TheM. For The Madness. I literally feel like I am going mad.  Normal day to day life has me cradling my head in my hands and wanting to die, and if there is a real problem or stress I almost feel I will explode with it all. I Wake in the morning, snap wide awake and can feel something (adrenaline/cortisol?)  starting...then moving up a gear,  churning nervous stomach heart pounding,  butterflies in stomach, wriggling legs and feet, mind fog, terrified of the day ahead. It's all I can do to get out of bed and get on with the day.  I feel completely paralysed.  Feel like I desperately want to be asleep again, to be unconscious, be unaware of life, to die.  If I could just sit, rocking back and forth staring at the wall I would, but that wouldn't stop the awful fear in my mind.  I can't bear it.  I want to be unconscious, dead.  Everything in life is a problem, even getting up, getting out of bed,  is insurmountable, the end of the world. I fall out with my family.   Life is too difficult.  It has no meaning, no hope, no joy I have no future I just want to die. I'm just so sad all the time. Like a sad zombie. I can't remember the last time I felt normal or happy. I just feel permanently tired and depressed, everything is a supreme effort and I don't enjoy anything. "

When I am out of the Madness, I feel fine.  I cope, I am normal, I'm fine.  Apart from constantly worrying about the Madness, and when it will come back.  I sound like a complete nutter. 

Genuinely, if there is anyone here who can help please advise.

thanks x

[CLKD]

I can give you a hug.  Deep anxiety is dreadful. 

My GP gave me a betablocka to ease anxiety surges which I take - 20mg at night and 20mg with breakfast.  I was already on an anti-depreeant medication.  Also I have an emergency drug to swallow when anxiety floors me.  Otherwise.

One doesn't have to have situations that cause depression or anxiety.  It happens.  Naturally but it can be awful  .  Even knowing that it's flight/fight response doesn't stop my automatic nervous system kicking in.

I would suggest that you begin eating every 3 hours, even in the night if you wake.  The idea is not to increase your over-all food intake but to spread it over 24 hours.  I have emergency foods:

When really bad:
Dextrose tablets - I chew 2 B4 getting out of bed each morning to give me a boost
dried fruits and nuts to nibble - the trick for me is to eat B4 I'm hungry to stop that sudden lurch which causes intense nausea
Bananas for slow release energy
Energy bars - with peanuts, chocolate, muesli-type - for the moment immediately my body feels hungry
Dry toast


When I feel better:
Good quality muesli with a little milk for breakfast
Thinly sliced chicken with lots of veg.: red/yellow peppers chopped, frozen peas, ginger, garlic: on a bed of freshly boiled rice
Chicken curry - home made; a good filler and can be eaten hot or cold

Right my grub is ready.  I don't think that any amount of HRT will lift you.

[lesley998]

Thank you CLKD. You're always first to offer a hug and advice, and I appreciate it more than you know.

I'm really scared sometimes. I don't know if you remember but my sister took her own life a few years ago and sometimes....well, I just get very low.  I probably need to see a psychiatrist. Even though my GP knows the family history I think he thinks I am attention seeking.  I'm really not.  I'm probably paranoid though

Thanks

[Lizab]

I can't tell you how to fix it but you describe it beautifully. I definitely relate to the snapping awake, have had the morning cortisol rushes and nervous tummy, irrational paralysing fear. The only thing I'm lacking here is the wanting to die. Instead I cry because I so badly want to live, and the madness doesn't feel like living to me. I haven't pinned exactly what kind of cycle it runs, but I'm learning to accept that it's here when it arrives and that it will go. Basically, I throw up my hands and try to trudge through until it lifts. I believe, and my husband confirms with his observations, that it isn't as intense as it was in the beginning, but that may be in part due to the fact that my family and friends now are aware and accept that I crash once in awhile, so I don't worry as much now about completing my obligations. Also I'm getting better at seeing it as almost it's own entity, I love that you named it The Madness! So when I'm feeling it, I try to look at it with curiosity rather than be consumed by it, like "Oh this is interesting, I feel a little strange! I wonder why that is!" It doesn't make it any less exhausting, but it does help me to not let it bog down my mood.

I'll ask because I'm sure someone will, have you tried antidepressants?  I have not because my gp thinks I won't react well to them, but when I'm in the madness I sometimes think to beg him for a prescription. It's clearly physiological, but sometimes I think the AD would at least give relief from the mental effects of this exhausting change.

[CLKD]

Why does your GP think you won't react well Lizab?  Unless you try - I had at least 4 different ADs in the early 1990s until we found one that worked!  For me it was the nausea that prohibited continuing with each.  My AD isn't a cure as I wake some mornings 'hung over'  but it's better than when I was unable to move through deep fear.  Pre-hensile fear  .  Beyond begin scared.

I don't think that HRT will work as quickly as a dedicated anti-anxiety medication.  You could Lesley998, see your Practice Nurse or your local Pharmacist for advice, B4 approaching your GP. I don't really know how either of you have 'hung on'!

Don't forget that the Samaritans and Mind services are available too.  I found the latter really supportive when my friend killed himself nearly 2 years ago, it triggered something in me "If he can do it, then what hope have I of hanging on"  .  I upped my ADs for 3 months which helped.

HRT can sometimes ease symptoms and sometimes lift anxiety and/or depression.  But it may take longer to kick in than a dedicated medication will crikey I said that already  .  Once the brain and gut have settled - and the gut is the 2nd brain - one can consider if HRT would help any menopause symptoms.

Take a list with you, in fact, copy, paste and print off what you have typed to us.  Ask for medication and an appt. to a Psychiatrist in the first instance who is able to prescribe if what your GP has suggested, isn't helping. 

I still live half a day at a time, try to eat B4 my body is hungry and exercise as much as possible, usually gardening.  If really ill in the mornings I go into automatic pilot, pottering around house and garden until breakfast kicks in. 

[Hurdity]

Hi lesley998

I am so sorry to read about how you feel.

It really sounds like the hormonal surges of peri-menopause are effecting you in an extreme way.  The carb cravings and possible low blood sugar feelings are absolutely typical - I got these feelings during the second half of my cycle even before I was properly peri-menopausal - as part of a more extreme pms. Ever since then I have had to watch what I eat in relation to exercise etc so that I keep my blood sugar stable. CLKD has given you some good advice about eating - the only thing I would try not to get into the habit of is the Dextrose as this can make things worse. However having said that during the period I'm talking about - I used to carry Dextrose because I did get  reactive hypoglycaemia - symptoms of sudden low blood sugar when out sometimes ( the shakes, sweats, intense sugar cravings). However now I know it is important to eat a really good breakfast, reduce sugar and refined carbs and eat more protein.

What are you periods doing now - have you skipped many - is your cycle length long. Do you take HRT?

Depending on the answer to your questions HRT may well help if you haven't started it already and especially if you are experiencing other symptoms such as flushes and sweats.

I would definitely get help as soon as possible if you are feeling like this. My view is that you probably don't need a psychiatrist if you have never suffered depression and don't feel you have any reason to feel like this - hormones are powerful things and can affect the mind deeply. I would get along to the GP asap  and see what s/he says. Try to find one in the practice who understands menopause and is not likely to think you are a "neurotic, over indulged, dried up old woman" - your feelings are real and need treatment whether through hormones or something else!

Have a read of the website http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles which has so much information and advice, and also have a look at Studd's website: http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php and all the associated tabs - who is a strong proponent of using high doses of oestrogen to alleviate hormonal depression.

Above all please do go and seek help as soon as possible. No-one should have to suffer like this - and you don't sound like a nutter! There is another member here - I hope she won't mind my mentioning her name - who felt as you do - completely OK for part of the month and in the depths of despair at others. She is GypsyRoseLee and you might like to look at her posts?

In the meantime keep posting -  however you feel - daily if you like - on here - as your thread - and there will always be someone to respond if you need it.

Hurdity x

Edit - I just wrote the above and while writing it I see your reply to CLKD. You may well have unresolved issues of grief and shock as a result of your sister's suicide and going through the menopause will make you less able to cope with feelings like this. I would urge you also to seek some help perhaps to talk through your feelings if possible?

[CLKD]

Dextrose has NEVER made my symptoms worse and I've suffered since the mid 1980s. 

[lesley998]

Lizab

What a wonderful post.  Thank you. One of the main reasons for my finally posting the full awfulness of these episodes (as opposed to my usual timid post asking if anyone ever gets the morning dreads) is because I  dont think I can bear to have to face this for the rest of my life, and of course I wonder if it really is all hormonal, and has an organic root...and who better to ask than other ladies in the similar rocky hormonal boat.   I don't feel quite so alone with it after reading your post.  I don't want to die really.  When I'm well, I love life, I love my life.  But when I'm in the Madness, I really do have constant, morbid thoughts of death and dying and wanting to die. I just want to not be conscious of it anymore, it makes me feel so bad.  Fearful, doom laden, terrified, scared, and most of all scared that I am going mad.   I've always been a bit of an over thinker, a bit stressed, lived on my nerves as they say.  My mother always said she had trouble with her 'nerves'.   I had a different sort of melt down a few years ago and I've been on Prozac for about fifteen years.    Maybe it's time for a change. 

Thanks.

[CLKD]

  sorry, Prozac made me  .  I have been lucky in that each AD has lasted for 6+ years .... before my brain poops out and another type is required.  In the 1990s I used Valium as necessary: usually the night B4 an event that I couldn't get out of.  If necessary I knew that I could take another during the day to ease me through, it made me muggy and less than sociable but it did stop any intense anxiety.

I never wanted to die: I wanted to sleep until someone woke me to say that I would never feel anxious again.  Appropriate medication has helped.  I would never have considered HRT as a means to controlling anxiety or depression, I had both pre-menstrual for years and only ADs etc. eased symptoms.

You are not going mad.  Hormonal upheaval can cause all kinds of symptoms.  For which there are appropriate medications.   

[Lizab]

CLKD- I tried an AD years ago for "anxiety" and reacted terribly. One dose and I was up all night unable to sleep, sweating, tingling scalp, diarrhea, and generally feeling weird. I felt like a zombie for 2 days after. My gp at the time suggested I stay with it and those symptoms would subside. No thanks! Interestingly with hindsight, all my "anxiety" symptoms of that time period miraculously disappeared when I had my Mirena removed. My mother insisted it was the root of my problems while my gp and gyne both insisted that was impossible. The positive takeaway for me is that I've in a way been down this road before, the downside being that this time I don't have a Mirena to remove and make it all better. Anyway, my current gp said my previous reaction to AD was extreme and he wasn't optimistic about finding one that would suit me. I'm hanging in there, but not feeling strong enough to experiment looking for the right one.

[lesley998]

Hurdity - thank you so much. You gave me some great advice a year or so ago about your HRT regime. I'm out the other side of meno.    I have not had a bleed for about two years.  I was on Premarin but was getting visual migraines and stopped.  I asked about Uterogestan and Estriadol patches but my GP hadn't heard of uterogestan.  I've not revisited HRT because I'm genuinely terrified to put something else in the mix now.    My sister had a lot of problems..she was bi polar2, really did have a hard time of it with a husband with secondary progressive MS for  a long time, no help, full time job etc. and a very sad life.She coped for years but menopause seemed to be the time that pushed her over the edge.  She had tried everything, lithium, even ECT.    She took her life in 2014 - she was missing for three months before we found her - some poor soul walking his dog in a local forest - and I had to move down to help her husband and son, while also trying to care for ageing  parents, one with dementia...then my son got into trouble and ended up in prison.  You couldn't make it up lol....I think I've had a couple of years of severe stress and perhaps it takes its toll.  I remember when my sister tried to explain how wretched she felt, even a couple of years ago I didn't really get it.  When she took her own life I still couldn't believe it and didn't get it.  Now I do, and it seem like some awful warped Groundhog Day feeling....it's happening to me too.


I am worried there is a familial mental health thing and meno has just brought it all to a head.

[Lizab]

Lesley998- you are definitely not alone. As Hurdity mentioned, GypsyRoseLee has similar issues, and there are/have been others on the forum as well. One other thing to ask, have your thyroid levels been checked? The thyroid hormones and reproductive hormones "play" together and changes in one can affect the others. Out of balance thyroid can have mental effects too.

[lesley998]

Thanks Lizab.

I had a lot of blood work done a few years ago when I started peri...I had sudden crippling joint pain (turned out to be a frozen shoulder, common when oestrogen levels drop) and GP tested ESR levels, FSH and did some thyroid checks too.  I'm supposing all well as the only result was FSH and she started me on HRT which I've since stopped due to side effects.

[Lizab]

Well, you and I seem to be on the same path! I started with frozen shoulder too. I never went to the doctor for it, used Dr. Google. At the time I had recently weaned my, then, one year old, so I chalked it to hormonal changes from weaning. Most of my earlier peri issues were blamed on the baby. She's five now and there's no denying it's menopause 

[Annie0710]

Aw bless your heart :-(

I don't know much at all about all this but the cycles of the madness you describe do sound hormonal but with probably ptsd thrown in as you've really been through the mill emotionally

I would think even being post meno there could still be surges, I know I don't feel the same day in/day out and I'm 2 to 3 years post meno myself

You need to find a kind understanding gp at your practise, one that even if they don't have the answers, cares enough to get the answers or to refer you speedily to whoever

Big hugs xxxx