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[yriches65]

Hi All,

Currently on 2 pumps Estrogel and testim gel.... my 3rd regime and still no view of any light at the end of the tunnel

Going through hell as we all are.... i have no idea when this will end or it will ever end....

I find myself having real bad bouts of depression (daily), which ends up myself talking to myself, wishing to die...

Also suffer from tics as well....

All this since been going through the meno/hrt all to do with hormones ... which i am total hysterectomy 12 years ago with ovaries removed.... was okish the previous 9 years with no HRT , until last July

Never had any form of depression previously...

I don't know if the cause is too much HRT or too little...

A few weeks after starting the Estrogel it seemed to get better..... but now coming back..., still have other hormone imbalance symptoms

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had the bad depression, sense of despair, don't know what to with myself...

Only resbite i get is taking 3.75 mg zopiclone....

I only take these when i need to..... when have a good spell don't need to take the zopilcone.

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had the bad depression, sense of despair, don't know what to with myself...

Anyone else in the same boat or has been there ?? let alone anyway out ?

Y x

[CLKD]

There is certainly a way of easing symptoms. 

Whilst there is a thought here at MM that depression/anxiety caused by hormonal imbalance should be dealt with by HRT only, there are those of us who suffer depression/anxiety that require HRT along-side specifically designed treatments to ease symptoms.

A visit to your GP or Practice Nurse pronto.   Anti-depressant medication can take a while to kick in and there are several available, some even ease hot flushes  - as well as anti-anxiety meds to take 'as necessary'.  Ladies find that if the anxiety/depression are under control it allows them to decide which other symptoms need addressing - it may be that a different HRT would help or a hike in dosage.

My regime is 5mg AD morning and 10mg of the same AD at night
20mg Propranolol which is a beta-blocka - night and morning - to slow down my heart rate and help stave off anxiety surges
an emergency med. to take when anxiety floors me - without which I wouldn't be here 

As a sufferer of anxiety since age 3 and depression since 1988 ....... ADs have eased symptoms and anti-anxiety medications improved Life enormously.  My GP is OK about me altering my AD dose as required.

If you feel despair than that despair requires addressing  .  Specific medication for specific symptoms ;-)

[Tapnut45]

Hi yriches65,
Sorry you are struggling so badly with depression, it's really horrible. As CLKD said, some people need antidepressants to be able to function and cope with day to day life (my hubby' been on them for years) and I went to the doc in March and was put on citalopram to help with anxiety and feeling low. It worked for me and I feel much better in myself. After reading up on here I realise that HRT may have also been a good choice for me at the time, but I wasn't in a position to make that decision. Now that I am, I've decided to give it a try.
You've said that your depression is affecting you every day, so it is definitely time to see the GP and have a discussion. Maybe book a double slot so you have time to talk without being rushed. You could say it's about depression and your HRT, 2 problems warrants a double slot.

Good luck and hope you get some help soon.

[Mbrown001]

Great post CLKD, there is nothing much that I can add except to say HRT rarely stops depression or anxiety.

There seems to be a reluctance to admit to having either though. A trip to your GP and get things sorted. You can happily be on both HRT and ADs. Lots of women on the forum are taking both.

Let us know how you get on.

[yriches65]

Thanks for the comments.... last year was prescribed sertaline and if needed diazepam..

I am very sensitive to chemicals.... i took 1 tablet of sertaline and felt awful, sick, spaced out... felt even worse than when took it...

Also tried Propranolol , but this didn't seem to have an effect on me....

Tried 1/2 tablet of sertaline but still didn't agree with me, haven't tried the diazepam as didn't want to feel spaced out (had previously worked in NHS and saw some on diazepam)

Let alone didn't want to really go down that route...

Have had some better moments when on the HRT where the depression and anxiety eased... but have lost those days...

My local GP's are not very good....and even the thought of going there increases the anxiety....last time i went to keep getting a sick note... couldn't even sit in the waiting room.... other half had to come and get me when it was my appointment....

So to stop the GP anxiety i packed in work so i didn't have to get a sick note....

If my hormones were better i feel like i could cope with some aspect... but at the moment , i have no clue where that is

Thanks

Y x

[Kathleen]

Hello yriches65.

I am so sorry that you are feeling this way and I'm sure many ladies here can relate to what you've described, I certainly can!

 I didn't know it was even possible to feel as dreadful as I did when the menopause struck and I was truly shocked and horrified at the impact declining hormones had on me and my sense of well being. Incidentally these difficulties are mentioned in my trusty meno book so they are nothing new to the medical profession.

I was thinking earlier today that the only time in my life when I was in a similar state mentally was when my children were young and I was chronically sleep deprived. This made me wonder how much poor quality sleep is adding to our problems and if you are dealing with insomnia this would certainly apply to you.

 I'm still searching for a solution myself but I wanted to say that you are not alone and I hope you find some comfort in that.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[yriches65]

Many thanks Kathleen...

It is comforting in one way that i am not alone... but it is bad that we have to go through this and suffer this day and age...

Ref my insomnia i get to sleep on 7.5 mg zopiclone and melatonin gums (3 mg).... where hormones on HRT was slightly better would sleep though the night well until 6 am but was able to get back to sleep

At the moment awakening between 4-6 am.... don't get to sleep until between 12-1 , but unable to get back to sleep

Big Hugs

Y x

[Mbrown001]

Have a look at the Nomorepanic website.

I would get my brave up and go back to your GP with your OH for support. You can ask for CBT.
Have you tried Bachs Rescue Rememedy.
There are also some good if old fashioned books by Dr Claire Weekes available on Amazon for very little that explains how to deal with the feelings that you have.

You are really not alone with this. There are lots of us that suffer with anxiety. You will get through this but sometimes you have to go and look for help.

Keep posting...always someone around to hold your hand.

[MIS71MUM]

Yes me too!
The menopause has brought about terror and despair which I really didn't think was possible.
I'm not sure of your age but I doubt you're having too much oestrogen. Probably not enough. There's another post at the moment by Gypsy Rose Lee, I urge you to read that. She has suffered terribly, like me, with hormonal anxiety and depression.
I too am sensitive to chemicals and tried 3 different ad's 2 years ago, each making me even worse. In the end, I stuck with the 3rd which had awful side effects to get where I am now. I have to be honest with myself and say right now I need both AD and HRT - I hate taking medication. If depression is affecting your life for 2 weeks or more, then you need to take action.
I would increase your gel, then I'd consider an AD but bare in mind that you may feel worse before better which is horrible when you are already on your knees.

[yriches65]

Hi MIS71MUM,

Thanks for your reply, which AD is the 3rd one you had to settle on, any help at all ?

Big Hugs

Y x

[daisysareyellow]

Also suffer from tics as well....

This is the part that caught my eye first as it may be medication induced. I developed a 24/7 twitch whilst on Topamax for my migraines. I would do a thorough search of side effects of your medications to see if that could be the cause of your tics. I was taken off Topamax after 5 years and my tremor and twitching stopped. I was 48 at the time and I am 51 now.

My father suffered severe bi-polar all of his adult life. He had a major episode 15 years ago and was made an involuntary patient for about 6 months. My older brothers are both doctors and everyone got involved with his medication/vitamins/etc.. His last 15 years of life were the best he ever had because they got him on a medication regime that improved his mood and stabilised everything.

How does this apply to you? You and your doctors need to work out what medications, vitamins and lifestyle changes need to be made. This may take a few goes, but it can definitely be done. My father felt suicidal at times, but the right treatment got him through. Be very, very persistent.

[CLKD]

and even the thought of going there increases the anxiety....last time i went to keep getting a sick note... couldn't even sit in the waiting room.... other half had to come and get me when it was my appointment....


yep, been there, done that!  I simply couldn't sit in the Waiting Room  .......

If you can't face going to the Surgery then ring and ask for a call-back?  Have a list of how you feel to discuss with the Nurse/GP when they ring.  You may warrant an out of hours house call or it might be suggested that you go along at the end of Surgery time so that you don't have to wait and that you don't feel rushed.  Again, take a list. 

Some medications do the opposite of what it says on the tin so it really can be trial and error.  I tried 3/4 ADs B4 we found 1 that works, that was in 1989 and served me well until 2001.  My brain then pooped out so we tried a couple more ...........

Maybe do some relaxation therapy several times a day: a sharp breath in through the nose, hold for 3 counts and let out slowly ......... 3/4 times.  Then slow down your breathing as much as you are able to.  When you wake in the night, stretch your muscle groups: starting at the toes and work through the calves, thighs, belly ......... taking time to listen to your breathing .  It is the idea of diverting your mind .

Sometimes it works 

[Hurdity]

Hi All,

Currently on 2 pumps Estrogel and testim gel.... my 3rd regime and still no view of any light at the end of the tunnel

Going through hell as we all are.... i have no idea when this will end or it will ever end....

I find myself having real bad bouts of depression (daily), which ends up myself talking to myself, wishing to die...

Also suffer from tics as well....

All this since been going through the meno/hrt all to do with hormones ... which i am total hysterectomy 12 years ago with ovaries removed.... was okish the previous 9 years with no HRT , until last July

Never had any form of depression previously...

I don't know if the cause is too much HRT or too little...

A few weeks after starting the Estrogel it seemed to get better..... but now coming back..., still have other hormone imbalance symptoms

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had the bad depression, sense of despair, don't know what to with myself...

Only resbite i get is taking 3.75 mg zopiclone....

I only take these when i need to..... when have a good spell don't need to take the zopilcone.

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had the bad depression, sense of despair, don't know what to with myself...

Anyone else in the same boat or has been there ?? let alone anyway out ?

Y x

"Have had some better moments when on the HRT where the depression and anxiety eased... but have lost those days..."

Sorry to hear about this yriches65.

As you are so certain that the cause of your depression is hormonal and you have never had depression before nor have any reason to feel this way (other than hormones) then yes hormones are the way to treat it.

As MIS71MUM says GypsyRoseLee has recently had success after going through difficult times.  You probably know that this type of depression is called Reproductive Depression and is recognised by the eminent gynaecologist John Studd who treats this by means of oestrogen. Studd's regime consist of high doses of oestrogen to achieve much higher blood levels than most other women need in order to counter the depression. Do have a look at his website where there is a lot of information about this: http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php . There are lots more relevant tabs down the left and rhs of the page.

You have had your ovaries removed and been a long time without HRT so your body has probably been "crying out" for oestrogen as has been said on here before!

I think you had initial success but your dose is probably too low - 2 pumps is the standard post-meno dose of gel. You haven't said how old you are but adding oestrogen at least until the natural average age of menopause of 51/52 is considered the best way forward to protect heart and bones - and as long as you can thereafter.

The good news is that you don't have to take a progestogen which is usually the part of HRT that causes the problems and side effects.

Although blood tests - and especially single ones - to measure estradiol are unreliable - they can be helpful for women in your position to see how well you are absorbing oestrogen from the gel. Maybe have bloods taken on two separate occasions - and if you put it on your arm - don't get blood taken from that arm!

I would not be in a hurry to take anti-depressants until you find the level of oestrogen that makes you feel as well as you can in view of its overall benefits. Are you able to get referred to a menopause specialist who can help you through this and to arrive at the best dose for you? If you manage to do this for say 3-6 months and things haven't improved then perhaps time to think about additional help - but I agree that http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/ is a good website for self-help techniques in the meantime.

Hope this helps and you manage to find a treatment that makes you feel better and more positive

Hurdity x