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Author Topic: Coming off hrt  (Read 18599 times)

Tempest

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2017, 11:20:43 AM »

I feel your pain, Anjia - I really do! This is EXACTLY what happens to me. If i go high enough to get rid of flushes, the anxiety goes through the roof.

So I'd rather live with periods of anxiety due to adrenal surges than anxiety ALL THE TIME.

I don't get why no one gets this. Estrogen is STIMULATING. It HAS to be opposed to some extent by progesterone if you're using a 'decent amount' or else you end up like a rabbit in car headlights! I know some women say 'ooh, I'd LOVE to be on estrogen only all the time'. But they wouldn't be able to hack it long term! xxxxx
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br350

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2017, 12:14:11 PM »

Paisley, I recently went off for a few weeks but I had my annual GYN exam last week, and my practitioner advised me to not go off at this time because of the extreme heat we've been having.  She said waiting until fall would be much wiser and make the transition more manageable.  I'm only very low dose - the 0.037 patch which is just slightly higher than the micro 0.025 patch. 

I turn 51 soon and have been mostly on HRT for the past 2 years (a few times going off for several weeks here and there).  I have always had a love/hate with using HRT.  I honestly don't feel that much better on it than off of it.  It's the progesterone part that sticks in my craw.  I have used it 10 days/month but those are frustrating and physically yucky days.  I feel bloated, cravings, lethargic, digestion slows to a crawl, I feel little motivation and get sluggish.  I sleep great on progesterone (the one benefit!)

The idea of adding exogenous hormones to my body has never felt like a wise idea to me.  The body's hormonal system and its way of regulating it is very sophisticated and fine tuned.
 It can be argued that the HRT we use is bioidentical, but our bodies do not produce a steady stream of the same dose, day in and day out.  Naturally levels would change day to day, hour to hour.  And we have not only estradiol, but estrone and estriol in the mix that our bodies naturally regulate throughout the life cycle.  When it starts to becomes like a science experiment in the body, it just feels doesn't feel right to me.  That is just my opinion only!
     
I am fortunate that the flushes I get are manageable and very mild.  Maybe they will become worse (as I go deeper into meno), I don't know.  I did feel less energy and poorer sleep on the times I've gone off.  But I never waited it out long enough to see how that may have corrected itself.  My anxiety is not better on or off HRT, but I've only ever used lower doses.  Tempest, I have many times heard that estrogen is stimulant.  Some women apparently feel great on high doses but many do not.   

We all have got to believe there is hope on the other side.  :)  Even if this process takes longer than we imagined, with good self care, good nutrition, proper exercise and rest, we can prevail.  I deeply believe that.  It cannot be an accident that we see many active, healthy and vital women in their 60's and beyond around us.   Of course everyone has to do whatever it is that makes them feel their best (HRT or no HRT).    We each can only do what we feel works for our own bodies and minds!  A hug and a squeeze to all!  :foryou:
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Tempest

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2017, 01:05:19 PM »

Very wise words and hugs and squeezes right back, Tovah! Interestingly, Professor Studd states in his publishing's that anxiety is extremely difficult to address with HRT and for women whom this is a problem, he recommends a referral for talk therapies (not a lot of folk know that - but it's right there in his own words on his website)!

He also states that HRT does nothing to alleviate depression in women who are post menopausal. I think the benefits mentally of HRT are present only during the menopause transition. Depression seems to resolve post menopause as vaomotor symptoms ease and stop according to various research. So it seems that fluctuating hormones are the problem, and for many hormones CONTINUE to fluctuate whilst on HRT.

I also have a paper regarding research in mood following oopherectomy and it states that after following a sample of women for 10 years post surgery, their mood scores were no different from those women who were 10 years post natural menopause. This is backed up by other research which I will post a link to that illustrates that the post menopausal ovary is NOT a major producer of androgens, and that androgen production post menopause comes predominantly from the adrenals (estrogen is produced in small quantities via peripheral conversion - the post menopausal ovary does not continue to produce estrogen).

Here it is:

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/86/10/5060/2849419/The-Postmenopausal-Ovary-Is-Not-a-Major-Androgen

Interesting stuff........xxxxx
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 01:08:14 PM by Tempest »
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br350

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2017, 01:52:45 PM »

Tempest, than you for posting that link and such interesting information from Prof Studd!  I will read the link on my work break.   :)
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Anjia

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2017, 03:26:36 PM »

Tempest I so agree with what you said about how some women would love to have ostrogen only so they could have more! How I wish it was the case if they new how it makes some of us feel Im sure they would change there minds you have to have a balance  but I no for me there isent one.
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Tempest

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 03:35:19 PM »

Absolutely, Anjia! I have noticed that the women who do best are the ones who need to take some progesterone due to past endometriosis who have had hysterectomy/oopherectomy - they seem much more settled on their HRT.

Of course, in the States they know to replace all 3 hormones post hysterectomy/oopherectomy for balance - I'm royally fed up that we get fobbed off here as 'it's only for protecting the lining of the womb, you don't need it'.

Have you ever tried Premarin, by the way? It does contain some progesterone and testosterone elements but not a lot. I've met a few women who have done ok on it in our position, but for me on a higher dose it made me pretty dizzy! xxxxx
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Anjia

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 03:50:40 PM »

Thankyou Tempest no I have never tried Premarin but is it like Tibelone that made me very dizzy and bloated so would be a afraid to try it ?
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paisley

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2017, 03:51:42 PM »

TovahFell I totall agree with you. I stupidly decided to stop my HRT during the summer. I live in Spain & it is normally 33+ degrees. Before my hysterectomy I could not tolerate any type of progesterone, it made me crazy. I too agree that even though the HRT is bioidentical it still isn't something that our body is making. As soon as we take it it has to be metabolized & that is the part that my body doesn't like. Whereas when we make our own it is done automatically when & if needed. I had PMT, PND & now meno. These are all things which fluctuate hormones & so I think taking the HRT for me causes more fluctuations than I could handle. I hope being on nothing my body can sort itself out internally on its own
Tempest thank you for all that info. I must admit though I am not a fan of Dr Studd but he does produce some good literature. I think maybe oestrogen is only a stimulant if taken externally & for me progesterone taken externally is a real NO. I hated it so much. The only positive for me about having a hysterectomy was not having to take progesterone any more. I am the same with ADs can't take them either. You are both very good in your research & the more we learn about this the more empowered we become because the GPs certainly aren't so we have to help ourselves xxxxx
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Tempest

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2017, 04:22:17 PM »

I can't take AD's either! I was able to tolerate Prozac before meno. started (before I had ovaries removed) but after, it sent me loopy! I tried 3 - Prozac (loopy, massive anxiety), Sertraline (inflamed liver) and Citalopram (tachycardia). Some of us are just so sensitive, that maybe only nature and time have the answers.

I hope the heat isn't too brutal for you today! xxxxx
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paisley

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2017, 03:17:40 PM »

Hi all
Up date on NO HRT. Well I have been off HRT (oestrogen only) for nearly 3 months. Would like to say it has been easy but it hasn't it has been awful. Anxiety through the roof, down, more hot flashes, dizziness etc BUT I can say that in the last 2 weeks things have calmed down. The anxiety is not so bad, the down times don't last all day, the dizziness is much better & feeling like I am going to pass out is much better. I definitely can see an improvement. I think I still have a long way to go & after having hormone problems for years I am definitely not getting too confident. We shall see. Just wanted to post in case other ladies are thinking about or are in the same situation.
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paisley

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2017, 09:15:25 AM »

Hi Stellajane
I really hope you continue to do well without HRT. For me HRT was not an option anymore. I tried nearly everyone & none of them helped. I had a hysterectomy in May 2011 & so only had to take oestrogen & I still felt awful on it.
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Yammy1

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2017, 08:11:19 AM »

Hi all this site really is a life saver. I have tried hrt a few times now latest being divigel only 8 days in and I stopped this morning I'm now convinced hrt is not for me. I felt so bad yesterday I went to bed at lunch time and am still in bed now. The exhaustion became too much. I had hysterectomy 5 years ago and over the years my hormone levels were always low, had a hard time becoming pregnant(was told due to low hormone levels) thankfully I have two beautiful daughters but it was a long road. I honestly think my body is used to low hormones and when I introduce hrt it reacts badly. Well that's my theory anyway. I'm going to forget hrt and ride the storm, hopefully it won't be a long long process
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paisley

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2017, 08:30:02 AM »

Yammy1, I hope you feel better soon. When I used to start or increase any HRT I always felt horrendous for about 3 weeks then it would settle down a bit but I never felt good.
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Yammy1

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2017, 09:59:30 AM »

thank you Paisley. I phoned doc this morning and thankfully caught her at just the right time she filled out blood test form for me and I have apt in hospital next Thursday morning to have fasting bloods taken. she is checking everything, ferritin, thyroid, iron, magnesium level etc. hopefully this will show what's going on but in the meantime I am definitely staying away from hrt, if I can I would rather live without it, that's just my opinion, I am still tired this morning but at least I can function, even made it to the local shops. will keep you posted, once again thank you for your reply it's nice to know someone is there to share experience with x
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paisley

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Re: Coming off hrt
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2017, 03:49:55 PM »

It is really good also that you are having all those tests done. HRT is not for everyone.
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