Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MammaG]

Hi everyone, thought this may help someone. Big thank you to Hurdity who was very supportive via PM

In March I think I suddenly got hit with intrusive thoughts and massive panic. I had had a wonderful day so full of love and joy with my little Grandchild.Despite my many life stressors I didnt think it was anything other than the effect of hormones , tiredness and a round of steroid meds.

Doc said "this cant happen". I was crippled with anxiety within 2 hrs of putting estrogel and Utrogestan ( Vaginally)

Long story short I laboured on with HRT thinking it could be the progesterone. My brain was mental. I felt all sorts of weird things about my dtr and granchild (5yrs old) . I was terrified

I stopped everything for a couple of days and things calmed down. I stopped drinking coffee just incase. Took Progesterone again and was okish. Had a period and slowly got worse after stopping Utrogestan. I got so bad I went to the doc who signed me off work for a month with "Acute Anxiety". Despite the break my brain still felt utterly mad. Every night I slapped on the Estrogel and my daughter noticed the anxiety came within an hr. So we did an experiment.

I stopped coffee and took Estrogel, massive panic. I stopped Estrogel for a couple of days and purposely tanked up on coffee..
NO PANIC. No weird thoughts at all. Like a switch had been flicked. I had been literally rocking as though on a white knuckle ride. Doctor said this couldnt happen because I have been on it 2 yrs and refused to check my blood.

Its been 4+ days and no more weird thoughts, no fear. My situation hasnt changed. Actually its probably worse as I have lost wages and cant pay the bills this month.The only real change is no Estradiol..when I started HRT I was very active and now I can barely do 3000 steps a day. I reckon I stopped burning up the Esteogen and it accumulated.

I looked up when it hits the blood after application and found the general consenus is 1hr..All adds up. My daughter said she could literally see the change when I put the gel on

Docs are refusing to check my blood and dont know about the HRT in general. One doc said "there is no meno clinic" so I have no choice but to come off the HRT altogether. They simply will not believe that the HRT could be doing this.

Had I not been through this 28yrs ago after giving birth I would have begged them to section me initially as I was so bad, so afraid of what I was thinking. I bet they would have done it to rather than check my hormones. So crazy

Too late for me but hope this helps someone else. I even cut down to 1 pump and still got the intrusive thoughts. I wonder how much Estrogen is floating about in here..

[Mbrown001]

I think after doing your own experiment that you know exactly what you have to do.....stop HRT.

I know...especially on parts of this forum that it's the be all and end all.....but the simple truth is that it doesn't work for some.

Blood tests are unreliable and they change day by day....hour by hour. You have to go on symptoms.
If HRT is having such a dreadful effect on you then why carry on.

I wish you luck on your meno journey and I'm sure you will do just fine. Eat healthy, excercise and you can use alternative supplements too. They may well just be enough to see you through.

Keep posting and let us know how things go.

Mrs Brown

[Tempest]

Oh, MammaG! I so feel for you!!!! Thank you for your honesty in sharing this - I've had similar experiences in the past with estrogen only HRT after it builds up over time, and I'm TERRIFIED that its going to happen again now that I've restarted HRT!

I'm using patches now, very low dose to start and am hoping this means things won't build up too quickly. Can I ask if you've tried patches before, as the delivery is steadier instead of the instant uptake of Estrogel?

Sending so many hugs your way - I really can relate! xxxxx

[Tempest]

Oh, just another thought though - this could be progesterone withdrawal in your case as you had PND too. My Consultant is aware that I may need Progesterone as part of my HRT if things go 'bad' again. Are you post meno? I guess not, as you said you had a period.....

If after you reach a year of no periods and you wanted to try again, a conti regime might suit you so all is not lost - it might just be that you can't tolerate HRT right now. Tibolone is also an option too post meno. xxxxx

[MammaG]

Thanks Mrs Brown, it looks pretty cut and dry to me. I did the experiments and I jjst have to stop. Utrogestan doesnt feel that great either. I am forcing myself to move to burn it up.

Tempest I would say I was almost flirting with a mild phsycosis these last few months. Thank God I know my body. GPs collectively think I am loop de loop but My God it felt good to see the symptoms subside.

I am post meno but the Utrogestan taken vaginally produces a bleed. Initially I had severe hot flashes and couldnt sleep when I stopped Estradiol but I went down to 1 pump for about 3 weeks. It would seem that not dropping from 2 pumps hasnt produced the same results. Im hoping the difficulties wasnt the menopause but the sudden discontinuation of the 2 pumps.

Thinking about it 2 years ago the anxiety etc that led to the start of the HRT coincided with my Eastrogen levels being sky high my old GP said.

I have never taken any other HRT. What saddens me is the bone issue. I have Osteopenia from Steroid treatments. Will have to find another way to slow bone loss 

My advice would be to definately up the excercise to burn any excess estrogen out Tempest. I used to take it in the morning too which I think makes more sense.

They will not monitor me so I have to concede defeat. I have also noticed I have aged since being on HRT. Not that much to lose for me at least.
Thanks so much, lovely ladies for being there

[CLKD]

This is a huge lack of consideration from the medical profession again  .

Maybe contact NAPS - Dr Kathleen Dalton did a HUGE amount for girls with pre-menstrual syndrome years ago, proving that there is a link between mood and hormones. 

Hang on in there!  Maybe make a list of which symptoms you would like to ease and then ask us here?

[Kathleen]

Hello MammaG.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post. Your experiences highlight the difficulties many of us have with HRT and the menopause and how scary this whole process can be.

Wishing you well and let us know how things progress for you.

K.

[br350]

MammaG I think the body's hormonal milieu is complicated.  I'm sorry you're having this experience, but you've listened to what your body and intuition was telling you so good on you!  HRT is useful for some, not for others.  You are introducing something exogenous to your body (regardless of whether it's bioidentical) and this certainly can play havoc with your own underlying hormones/status.  Hope you continue to feel better.  There are myriad ways to approach menopause HRT-free and you are not alone in doing that!

[Tempest]

Good luck to all you lovely ladies who are going HRT free - to be honest, I envy you and wish it were a sensible option for me but as I'm severely hormone depleted, it's not a great idea having had ovaries removed at only 46 (I'm 48 now).

 Having said that, I have met a few ladies in my position who have managed it, and until she recently restarted HRT at low dose in her early 60's, let's not forget that Kirsty Wark managed to do so with no ovaries after only a couple or so years on HRT (she did say in the documentary that her sleep  has been awful though, and she now has a tad of osteopenia - but apart from that, she looks marvellous)!

For those going without HRT, by far the biggest healers are going to be time and stress reduction. And great nutrition. I would urge you all to watch what's happening 'down below' though as VA can be an awful challenge as MaryJane relays in this month's menopause matters magazine. Local HRT is exactly that - local. And it can help so much to alleviate these symptoms of course, with minimal or no systemic uptake. As I understand it, systemic uptake only happens until tissues are restored in most women (probably due to skin permeability before treatment commences). Its probably worth getting on something now before things get to that stage to keep everything healthy and to help keep UTI's at bay.

Many hugs, and good luck! xxxxxx

[br350]

Agree that rest and self care are always important! Tempest, - no right or wrong, good or bad, only what works for you.  If you are on HRT and need to be, so be it.  Nothing wrong with that!  You're doing what you think is best. 

The gamut of the menopause experiences of people I've known is so crazy!  Some have sailed through, some have suffered horribly, some have bones that are like old redwood trees, despite no HRT, and some have osteopenia that runs in the family.  So much is tied up in our individual physiology/chemistry and this is what makes the experience so vastly different for each woman, right?

To all ladies, soldier on, I say, and I hope everyone does well with whatever works! 

[CLKD]

Group 

[br350]

CLKD I love that emoticon!

[CLKD]

Good 

[Tempest]

Absolutely, Tovah! Everyone's physiology is so different - and the old one about 'your menopause will be similar to your Mum/sister' isn't true either! I've met women who are struggling but whose Mum or sister sailed through - that has to be tough to swallow! Me and Mum both had TAH/BSO (sadly I lost her aged 54 when I was 19 to what was initially Gynae. cancer - she was first diagnosed and had her surgery aged 42, but developed secondaries) but in our cases, we DID share the same menopause - absolutely horrendous!

Poor Mum - I wish we knew then that a lot of what she was suffering was meno. symptoms - I don't think she even knew herself that a lot of the things that plagued her were due to this. It was all about hot flushes only back then - the 34 menopause symptom list (and we know there are actually a good few more) didn't exist then. I wish she'd had the support that we have from each other here.

Group  indeed, CLKD - for each and every one of the wonderful ladies here. xxxxx

[babyjane]

Tempest I am sad that you lost your mum so young  .  Your mum is your anchor and when she goes your whole world changes shape and whatever your age it is a long hard road to adjust to that new shape whether you are 19 or 49 or even 69.