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[cubagirl]

Know what you mean about windows CLKD. When we had ours done I specifically asked for a side window which can be opened to allow escape if necessary. Company said it is what they recommend, but many people prefer the look of large panel windows with smaller windows on top to open for fresh air.  I once worked with someone who slept with a hammer beside her bed just in case, so she could smash her way out!

As for the funneling effect, I fear that's how recladding has been done country wide. 

[CLKD]

I think that this type of cladding will be looked at again.

When we go to places the 1st thing I do is check if the Fire Escapes are available for use and if not, give the people advice.  Quietly.  I don't want to freak out other visitors.  If there seems to be reluctance on the part of the owners to take in what I am suggesting, Himself backs me up - he's done Health and Safety and is more forceful.  I have 3 times in the last 2 years had the Fire Brigade involved when I've returned to find that the Fire Escapes have not been made accessible - all it takes is to move the green 'running man' to de-commision that particular door!  It's a World Wide sign after all.

The Fire Brigade will then serve an enforcement notice in that it has to be rectified in 7 days or the place will be shut down.  So anyone with fire risk concerns can ask a Member of their Local Force for advice.  Don't bother with the Landlord but seek advice sooner rather than later.

I haven't seen the News today but expect this is now a state of recovery rather than rescue  .  I always carry small torches in case the electric circuits go off. 

[breeze]

For anyone who is interested a donation webpage has been published in today's Metro newspaper,for victims of the fire.

The organisation is 'The Kensington & Chelsea Foundation' and the address for donations is -

www.thebiggive.org.uk/grenfell

[breeze]

Huge protest at Kensington & Chelsea Town Hall. Crowd very angry. Councillors escaped via rear exit.

They will be heard. All power to them.

[CLKD]

It's too soon to protest.  People have to take some responsibility and find out where escape routes are, whether it's in high rise office space, where they choose to live, shopping malls, theatres!  How many of you have checked how you and your family would get out should the worst happen?  15 years ago we had a window moved from very far left above the deep stair well to very far right so that it is accessible from the landing.  I have often thought about buying a specific ladder which stores under the bed and hooks onto the window-sill; to be flung out if necessary.

Remember to remain on the ground.  Smoke rises.  Which is why alarms are in the ceiling but that makes it hard for the elderly to switch off or re-fit batteries into.  It was suggested years ago that all skirting boards should have buttons so that anyone affected by electricity outage could feel their way to an exit.

Many of these people were from abroad so probably felt that they should be safe, I don't expect many even thought about a fire risk or knew who to ask for assistance to check ways-out etc..  Hopefully all cladding works will be halted across the UK until there is an Inquest  .  The owners of the cladding company must be losing sleep ........ and well done our Emergency Services    I couldn't sleep last night 

[breeze]

What does where people have come from have anything to do with it. I'm truly mistified by that. They are not stupid. Residents complained about safety for months before this.

If the council had listened and not penny pinched those people would still be alive.

[Ju Ju]

Know what you mean about windows CLKD. When we had ours done I specifically asked for a side window which can be opened to allow escape if necessary. Company said it is what they recommend, but many people prefer the look of large panel windows with smaller windows on top to open for fresh air.  I once worked with someone who slept with a hammer beside her bed just in case, so she could smash her way out!

As for the funneling effect, I fear that's how recladding has been done country wide. 

We had our double glazing installed in the 80s and were told the company would not install windows without an escape window in each room, apart from the toilet room, where that wasn't possible. What's happened since then?

[cubagirl]

Sorry CLKD but  I wonder how you think you would have escaped in such a situation. Many tower blocks are built around a central staircase. It's all very well to know escape routes, but when they become impassable residents have no option.  It's a situation which should never have arisen if local authority had spent the money fitting alarms & most importantly sprinklers in every flat.

Ju Ju, nearly all my neighbours have no means of escaping except through their front door. Our kitchen is beside our front door. If fire was to start in there, we can escape through any of our rooms.

[CLKD]

I would never be in such a situation.  End of.  I hate heights.  I hate being shut in even at ground level.  I think humans get complacent, 'it can't happen to us' - whether it be road traffic accidents, stroke, dreadful situations as we've seen this week.  Some of the older people trapped are from India/Asia, may well not have good English skills and wouldn't think to check escape routes. My reasoning doesn't in any way suggest that I consider any of them stupid.   There is a feeling that if a Service is paid for, then we should expect to be kept safe.

Do any of you check fire routes when you go into Hotels, we always do. I even check if there are several ways out when we go camping and actually, nope!  In fact last year checking the out-ward route served us well when the fire alarm sounded (not that Himself heard
it  ).  Hence my obsession with carrying a torch at all times and having hand-bag by the bed ready.

This sad scenario is likely to run.  People obviously need to know who is still trapped but barging into the Council Offices won't get answers any quicker than news is already being handed out.  I know how I felt when ever Himself was 'late'  and am so grateful each time he turned up safely.   

Hopefully this awful event will encourage each one of us to be more aware of escape routes and will encourage us to reiterate to friends and neighbours to check ways out.   

[breeze]

There was ONLY one way out.

Or two if you include jumping from the window.

Just wish I lived nearer, I would be among the protesters, that's for sure.

[CLKD]

To protest against what exactly?  Why will protesting make any difference?  Far better to be dignified and await the Report from Essential Services/Inquest which won't happen as quickly as any of us would like, I expect it to take at least 18-24 months B4 the 'real' story emerges. 

In these days of terriorism the Riot Act should have been read.  Obviously the Police were not expecting such a response! which bodes ill in general. 

I see already that the various Centres are asking for no more donations, having been over-whelmed already.  Why are people living in a hall, as shown on the 6.00 News, it is the legal obligation for the LA to house these homeless.  Someone from the Council (can't remember which one) promised on the JV Show that there is monies and people will be housed.  Maybe they want to cuddle together yet though  as a sense of solidarity rather than being taken to various hostels/hotels where they may well feel isolated.  Certainly I would want to be with others who had suffered for a few days in order to be with people who understand a bit. 

[breeze]

Sorry CLKD, I am putting you on my block list. I cannt read your posts on this appalling situation, and reply politely.

[nearly50]

I would never be in such a situation.  End of. 

If you didn't have the money for a private let of your choice, or a mortgage then you're at the mercy of where the council place you. Many of these tenants did raise concerns, and were ignored.  The people who died followed the fire safety advice and stayed in their flats.

This is a national disgrace and the fault does not lie with the people who died.

Breeze, I'd be there too in a shot. Feel so helpless but things have got to change in this country. Austerity is killing people.

[nearly50]

CLKD,  to protest about the inequalities in this country,  the fact that the poor are demonised and not listened to, the fact that London is rich but that public housing has not received investment and that dangerous cladding is placed on flats to make them look better for their rich neighbours. There is much to be angry about.

[Mbrown001]

Can we just get back to being in totally sympathy and solidarity with the poor souls that have died in such tragic circumstances.

Feelings run high in this kind of situation. What we all have to hope and pray for is that lessons are learned and nothing like this can EVER happen again.

Come on ladies.

Mrs Brown