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Author Topic: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!  (Read 3990 times)

Scotdownunder

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Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« on: May 29, 2017, 07:53:20 PM »

Hi All
 
My GP referred me to this site a while back. I'm 53, perimenopausal but with a relatively regular cycle still.
Had managed to keep most of the symptoms, night sweats, insomnia, brain fog, panic attacks etc. under control with harmony menopause max but by the end of last year it started getting worse.

In March I started HRT, progynova 1-2mg daily. First cycle was fine, but then we introduced progesterone for the second, for uterine protection. My mood dropped, I felt awful, headache lasted about 5 days. Finally started to feel better after period was over and returned to GP. We changed progesterone...yesterday I returned to her having had low depressive mood, snapping other family members heads off and suicidal thoughts by day 8. She has stopped the progesterone and is trying to get me na appointment with the consultant.

I was all set to throw in the towel yesterday and just give up everything.....this is so scary!
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CLKD

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »

 :welcomemm:  HORMONES  >:(  ::)

Have a search by putting progesterone into the box - see what threads come up!  Some ladies really can't tolerate that part of HRT ...... so are on a long session of oestrogen with a progesterone input every 3/4 months ...... [ I think ]
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Scotdownunder

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 08:21:50 AM »

Thanks CKLD!

I have done and it helps to know I am not the only one thinking she is going insane.
36 hours after last progesterone and my mood is starting to lighten!

GP called and has me an appointment with Consultant and is changing me to estrodot patch, to take with out progesterone until I see the consultant at the start of July. It really helps to be taken seriously.

Having lived through long terminal illnesses of both parents, IVF, twin parenthood, husband's despressive burnout, emigration and earthquakes I was shocked to be knocked sideways so badly, first by the brain fog, anxiety attacks, night sweats and forgetfulness leading to HRT and then with thoughts so low I could consider a long walk off a short pier,

Blinking awful timing....why can't this wait until retirement .....when you don't need to function at a high level!
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MicheleMaBelle

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 08:43:59 AM »

HiScotdownUnder

Welcome from bonnie Scotland. Sounds as if you've had an awful lot to deal with.

You're not mad- all of the symptoms you describe could be attributable to the progesterone part of your treatment. Your GP seems to be taking you seriously so that's a big tick in the box.

Hopefully you will get a regime that works for you but it's trial and error and you need to try and give it time. Go and see the consultant and read up on all the preparations before you go.

You may have an intolerance to P and might have to take it less frequently or at a lesser dose than the prescribed guidelines but I reckon that the consultant would want to try some different options before going down this route. Also, given all that's been going on with you, after the hormones have been sorted, you may benefit from some talking therapy. I'm not a big fan of ADs but I know that a lot of women on here benefit greatly from them.

You need to try and get something that suits you- we can all have our opinions but you know your body better than anyone, so if something doesn't instinctively feel right, listen to what your body is telling you.

Keep posting and let us know how youre getting on.

Take care x
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Hurdity

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 03:56:19 PM »

Hi Scotdownunder

 :welcomemm: from me too. So sorry to hear about your parents and the other issues you have experienced.

I agree with Michelemabelle about progesterone intolerance and also needing to give an HRT time to allow your body to acclimatise.

You haven't mentioned which progestogens you've tried but since there are only two licensed I presume you mean Provera and utrogestan? Some women find that taking Utrogestan (bio-identical - micronised progesterone) capsules vaginally minimises the side effects because it does not have to go through the liver in the same way as when taken orally.

I started HRT at the same age as you (just under 54) and only ever used transdermal oestrogens and vaginal progesterone (apart from a brief period on Evorel sequi which didn't agree with me) so a different mode of delivery may well help you to cope better with side effects. eg I still do get some side effects but on the whole I am much better taking HRT than not so I tolerate them.

If you have not suffered depression/anxiety in the past then anti-depressants are not recommended for symptoms caused by the hormonal changes of menopause but I agree it would be great if you could perhaps talk through what you have experienced if you feel you need to - with someone professional eg therapist or counsellor, and also if you could look  to behavioural/mental strategies to cope - as well as a hormonal solution. "No more panic" is often recommended as a website with self-help strategies.

Hope this helps and keep in touch.

Hurdity x
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Scotdownunder

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2017, 08:38:47 PM »

Thanks Michelle and Hurdity,

It can be hard when you feel like you are going through this alone.

My husband instantly thinks depression as this is what he has had, but it is hard to explain that at times you feel really good....before you take progesterone. It isn't new...PMT was there during virtually every cycle and from all my reading in the last couple of days seems to lead to the conclusion that it is the progesterone. In fact reading a couple of posts on here just made me feel so much better to know I wasn't alone from this.

Whenever I have had a meltdown in the past it has always been in that time of my cycle...it was one common feature.

Have tried provera and norethisterine which, until recently, have been the only progesterones available on public prescription here. Although have been on progynova, GP has asked me to try Estradot for this cycle. She is waiting for the Conusltant's input on progesterone, given the success of oestrogen only on first cycle and the thought that it is only a month away does not give me that large a risk for endometrial lining problems, given the fact that I am having relatively regular periods still, so likely to be producing my own progesterone as well, but knows this cannot continue. I was all for giving up on Monday, unable to deal with severe lows.

The one lightbulb that did go on related to a 90km cycle race I did in Feb. for only the second time in my life my period had not started, so 5 days before the race was given norethisterone in a high dose to attempt to prevent it starting. My body had been under stress with training ( let's put it this was...I am not a natural athlete and hadn't been on a bike for 30 plus year until last year)

My mood became lower and I felt snarly in the time before the race but I put it down to stress. I thought I had given it my all when I came off the bike drained. The next day I stopped norethisterone immediately as I didn't need to hold off period any longer, I spent down a black hole, when I should have been celebrating what I had achieved! I cried on and off for the entire trip home. I thought it had been exhaustion, taking everything from my body. Took about 3 days to clear. Now I'm not so sure and neither is the GP.

I had done everything to try and make the menopause better, knowing I had a rough time in my teens, PMT, IVF etc. in the two and a half years I have developed a regular my habit, dropped almost 15kgs although 5 have gone back on, become fit and active. But the mentalpause aspects are a pain!

It is the brain fog, fatigue, lack of concentration, feeling down, periodic insomnia, increased headaches  that are definitely the worst parts of this journey for me. Oestrogen really helped there...but the progesterone just brings it back and more!

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MicheleMaBelle

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 07:59:37 AM »

Hello- I'm afraid the progesterone is cancelling out the beneficial effects of the oestrogen and everything you mention points to hormone related depression and to progesterone intolerance.
The best bet is to speak to your consultant about taking less progesterone on a longer cycle as it appears that you are taking too much for you.
You'll need to balance up the risks associated with this but definitely make a list of your symptoms to take with you to discuss with your consultant. Norethisterone is notorious for causing side effects and many women don't get on with it at all. Can't comments on what you've taken progesterone wise before and now as I'm unfamiliar with both names. Is there any way you can take these vaginally as you'll reduce side effects. Also have you considered a mirena coil. I understand that it does contain norethisterone but as it's delivered straight into the womb, the side effects can be less.

I wish I had an easy fix for you but keep your chin up and hopefully you'll find something that works for you x
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MicheleMaBelle

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 08:08:34 AM »

Me again- re my last post. I'm an eejit! Now know that the names you mentioned are the oestrogen part of your therapy and you're doing without progesterone until your fox gets feedback from the consultant.Less haste, more speed x
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Hurdity

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 08:10:51 AM »

Hi there

Are you actually in UK now Scotdownunder? I ask because as I said, the only two progestogens licensed to be used as part of HRT separately are Provera and utrogestan. Norethisterone is available as part of combi HRT tablets and patches but is not normally prescribed separately although it is often given as a treatment to stop bleeding or delay periods. I know some gynaes will prescribe this as part of hRT.

Utrogestan is different from the ones you've tried because it is progesterone ie biologically identical to the progesterone made in our bodies. It can have a sedative effect as I mentioned but as I also said these are minimised if it is used vaginally. The other two are taken as tablets.

Michelemabelle - Mirena contains a different progestogen - levonorgestrel - the same one as in Femseven patches and some of the CCPs. Some women tolerate this one better than the others although it is still a synthetic one, but yes the side effects may be less than when taken as part of the pill!

Progesterone withdrawal can cause extreme pms symptoms in some women (until it has left the system) and this could have contributed to what you experienced after your race.

As Michelemabelle says - I do hope you get it sorted!

Hurdity x

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MicheleMaBelle

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 08:13:59 AM »

Thanks Hurdity- learning something new every day! X
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Scotdownunder

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 09:14:20 AM »

Thanks Ladies!
In NZ, not UK, so much less choice.
Only just started HRT - just finishing third month.
Progynova mth 1
Progynova with 10 days provera mth 2 - which I just managed before chucking the stuff through the window
Went back to Doc about 10 days into mth 3 and lowest dose of progesterone was norethisterone 1/4 x 5mg tablet....day 8 of this on Monday saw me back, weeping...a complete mess. I deserved an Oscar for my work performance that day, trying to laugh and seem normal!
She stopped the progesterone for my mental health that day. Yesterday was low, but not as bad, today had anxiety, nausea and jitters....but has just stopped with fresh bleeding...so hopefully back to square one.

See consultant first week of July. Lucky to have a fantastic GP, who is approaching this age herself and is sympathetic,

Started on Estradot25 tonight and hopefully will be back to a reasonable degree of normal, or at least what passes for it in this life period! Oestrogen only was good, less moods, more energy and no anxiety or panic attacks. It reduced the night sweats and slightly helped with sleeping.....so fingers crossed.
I am still perimenopausal....so don't know how much longer I will have the massive hormone swings. But knowing what I know now it explains why I felt better in the two months I did not have a period! Likely to be no ovulation and therefore less progesterone!

Looking for silver lining in this which means once ovulation stops completely I may get rid of the down week to 10 days that has dogged me most of my adult life!
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MicheleMaBelle

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 11:01:39 AM »

 :foryou:
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Hurdity

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Re: Progesterone intolerant perimenopausal newbie!
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 04:45:31 PM »

Hi there

Ah - of course - that explains the downunder!

Well the good news is if you are taking Estradot 25 that is a low dose hence a lower dose of progestogen will be theoretically needed to protect the womb lining - and as you say - if you are still ovulating, your own progesterone may well be sufficient to enable the lining to be shed. Hopefully it (the patch) will reduce the effect of the oestrogen dips which occur at the end of each cycle - but eventually you might want to move to a higher dose. Fortunately Estradot increases in small increments so comes as 37.5 and 50 before jumping up to 75!

Great to have the medics on board and sympathetic!

Hurdity x
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