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[Annie0710]

Fingers x'd xxx

[Hurdity]

Thank you, Dazned and Warwick.

To be honest, I'm worried sick today about all this. I was hoping for an increase in my gel dosage and adding in 100mg Utrogestan every other day. I have no idea where to turn for help or advice and feel like just coming off everything again now despite the truly debilitating physical symptoms.

I can't afford for this to go wrong and end up in a psychiatric hospital over this, and any sign of depressed mood and that's what going to happen - my psychiatrist just won't take the risk. I have never categorically said this, but I regret this surgery with all of my heart and don't think I can do this any more. xxxxx

Hi again Tempest - I know you have had so many problems - so I don't know why you can't just start on the regime you wanted to try? I know it's not normally used but as you say something needs working out for those who have had surgical menopause. Personally I don't think adding progesterone is ultimately the answer ( I mean long term medically) but for you (and others) in your situation, until enough research has been carried out into working out how to stabilise women in surgical menopause, I can't see why you could not try it (rather than the high dose prog you have been prescribed)? After all it's not going to do you any harm?

Did the Prof veto this for a particular reason? I only say because you sound as though the gel was beginning to work for you and was not causing the violent allergic reaction you experienced before, so if the prog at a low dose would act as a sedative - why not try it? (Never though I'd be saying that!!!)

I'm not sure what this Diane is going to suggest - I did look her up briefly - from what I gather she is not a medical professional and not a qualified doctor but hopefully she is giving you some helpful support and advice.

Hurdity x

[MIS71MUM]

Hi Tempest
How are you doing today?
Of course I don't mind you showing Hubby my messages- I just hope that I can help you.
Just one thought, you know you mentioned that you have become weepy since starting the Oestrogen- do you know that it's because of the oestrogen or could it be that the gel isn't working on your mood yet? And the tears are a reaction to low Oestrogen?
Take care x

[Tempest]

Hi, Hurdity! No, there is no good reason at all, and that's why I feel so bereft. My GP will only do as Professor Lumsden says, and today I'm at the bottom of my container of Oestrodose and they won't give me any more (I thought I had more than I did - it felt 'heavy' but its hard to judge with the packaging).

So it looks as though tonight I will have to stop the gel again. I'm not allowed to start the Utro. according to my GP until I've spoken to my psychiatrist next Monday, not that I want to start it anyway on its own.

I really feel like giving up now. I'm being held to ransom here with all this, and I can't keep putting my body through this turmoil. My psychiatrist has SAID that my issues are hormonal, but my GP keeps banging on about possible disturbed mood on HRT etc etc.

When I spoke to Diane (she's been counselling me) she said it's because I've never been on a high enough dose to help my mood or for long enough, and I agree with her! At present she is gathering information for me so that I can go privately.

I don't think anyone has ever been held to ransom like I have over replacing hormones which are essential for my health, and I'm beginning to wonder if this is in fact a breach of my human rights.

Oh, and I phoned the Samaritans today. I had to phone SOMEONE. Hubby is at work over the weekend and I have no idea how I'm going to get through. I'm sorry to be so dramatic, but I'm truly desperate. The sad thing is that the flushes at least have started to go as of yesterday, but I have no more gel anyway.

Thank you for your kindness.

Love,

Tempest xxxxx

[MIS71MUM]

Tempest- I'm so frustrated for you!

Surely your GP must know that stopping the Oestrogel won't be good for you especially when you had been getting results with the flushes.

I've phoned the Samaritans before - and it does help to talk.

If I used gel, I'd post you some but unfortunately I'm a patch girl.

Xxx

[Mary G]

Tempest, I'm so sorry you have been left feeling like this and I would be very angry in your position and yes, I really get the human rights angle. 

Why not ring Professor Studd tomorrow and have a telephone consultation?  It is always worth getting a second opinion and let's face it, you have nothing to lose by simply speaking to him and listening to what he has to say.  You don't even have to take his advice but I feel you need to speak to someone right now who has experience with hormonal depression.  Also, he would be able to organise an emergency prescription if you need it.   

The person you mentioned (Diane) might have a point about your not having reached a high enough level of oestrogen.  I know that some women with hormonal depression often need very high and constant doses of oestrogen.  Could this be the case with you?

I wish I could help you but I can't think of anything else to say other than you will get there in the end.

[Annie0710]

Tempest let me know if you got my pm xxxxx

[dangermouse]

Sorry you're feeling so worried. Please understand that nothing has actually happened since you were initially keen to try the progesterone and now. You're simply doing the worst case scenario thinking, something we do subconsciously thinking if we can imagine coping with the worst thing (as in the same reaction as the Tibilone) then everything will be fine. However, what happens is that your brain then registers the scenario as if it's actually happening and you're feeling the resulting anxiety.

Nothing has changed in terms of the odds of this working, only your belief. You could start the Utrogestan (I agree the smaller dose would make more sense if they can change it?) and you can always add back the gel if it sedates you too much. Although sedation may be just what you need right now.

I suspect the gel is still over stimulating you (because you need either more or less) and that is making you panic and assume the worst.

Please when you feel like this say to yourself "Everything will be ok, things will work out in the end and I can stand it" rather than "It's all going to go wrong and I can't stand it!". The former is true and the latter is a lie due to possibly a belief such as 'This MUST work otherwise there are no other options, therefore I can't stand it, it's the end of the world!!!'. This leads to anxiety and anger and you feel you've lost control.

Instead, the true statement would be 'I REALLY WANT this to work, but if it doesn't we'll tweak it and eventually something will work for me, I can stand it, it's not the end of the world'. This leads to more rational emotions such as concern and annoyance which make you feel back in control as they are healthy negative emotions to spur you on to achieve your goal!

[Tempest]

Hi Annie and Edelweiss - I've received both of your messages and I'll message back as soon as I have my I pad. Thank you so much! xxxxx

Thank you so much, Marchone, Mary G and Dangermouse. Very wise words, Dangermouse - thank you so much for framing things in a different and better light. xxxxx

I am currently in communication with Dr. Louise Newson to see if we can work together privately. I also have the option of  Cathy Abernethy (soon to be Chair of the BMS). Both of them know my case history now and it's just a matter of organising things, so I'm hoping for a positive outcome some way!

Hubby is being wonderful and fully supports my decision to use the private sector.

I forgot to say, I also received a recall over my DEXA which I was assured was ok, and I have to have this repeated next Tuesday. When I was rambling to the lady at the Samaritans today (who was lovely and kind) she said that surely this would force the issue of HRT even more if unfortunately there is a problem? This is also why I'm very worried - it's like its all happening at once and the timing has been unreal as the whole issue with the Progesterone only is that it DOESN'T offer any bone protection!

Just to reiterate what I wrote earlier in case anyone is confused, what I requested at my Consultation was 75mcg (titrating if nescessary) Evorel patches which I would be using on the thigh as opposed to the tummy as I couldn't absorb there, with the option of switching to Elleste Solo if I still had absorbtion issues. With this, I asked for 100mg Utrogestan bi-daily to address the issue of palpitations which I get on estrogen only (this has been researched and verified by Dr. Nick Panay). I'm completely sure the 'anxiety' I'm getting is actually due to unremitting palps and also episodes of tachycardia on estrogen alone (I don't get this off HRT).

My cardiologist is satisfied that these features are not due to any underlying heath condition, but are due to the stimulating effects of exogenous  estrogen and I have had scans at the Department of Nuclear Cardiology to rule out anything untoward.

I also requested Testosterone in addition at a later date (at a later date, IF it was nescessary to wait - although Dr.Panay and Prof. Studd  are happy to prescribe these simultaneously as it takes a good number of weeks for the Testosterone to build up to any therapeutic level). I was refused the Testosterone as 'not nescessary'.

Phew! Sorry for rambling, but I just thought I would clear that up so that you wonderful ladies who are trying to offer me help and comfort have the full picture!

So - no gel tonight. I managed to just get a mean half a squirt out of the container so it wasn't worth it. I hope I can cope, but then I managed over 2 months without before I started it and its only been 9 days (which is why I was surprised that I had some noticeable hot flush relief from just 1 pump)!

Thank you all so much for your incredible kindness.

Hugs,

Tempest xxxxx

[edelweiss]

I think Louise Newson is lovely! xxx

[Tempest]

Whoops! I had a typo. there with her name, didn't I? 

Do you know of her, Edelweiss? That's marvellous! Yes, I need someone with a compassionate nature, and Diane recommended her to me. It really has been an absolute godsend being in contact with Diane as she has so many personal contacts due to her roles at the BMS and Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology.

Thank you so much - without you, none of this would have been possible! xxxx

[edelweiss]

Yes, and I thought Louise was absolutely lovely, warm and compassionate.

Very committed to women's health.

She takes HRT too. She looks amazing glowing and healthy! xxx

[GypsyRoseLee]

Oh Tempest, I am squeezing your hand really tightly (by proxy).

As you know, I have suffered dreadfully with hormonal anxiety and anxiety. It really is vile. For what it's worth, my opinion is also that you simply have never had high enough oestrogen levels, for long enough, to feel real improvement.

Being on 3 pumps, or 3 sachets of Sandrena didn't even touch the sides with me. When I saw Prof Studd he told me that 1-2 pumps were for the physical symptoms of perimenopause, and that 3-4 pumps (or occasionally even higher) was required to alleviate anxiety and depression.

I do know that he 'likes' his anxious/depressed patients to achieve oestrogen levels of 600-800 pmol. But, he also said he has some ladies with levels over 1000 pmol, which is fine too. After I had been on 4 pumps for 6 weeks my oestrogen level was only 603 pmol, which Prof Studd said 'wasn't that high at all.'

You will get through this. We are all here for you, willing you on. This too, shall pass xxx