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[Tempest]

Thank you so much, Rhiner! So you don't absorb much transdermally either? I have no clue what the issue is with me but i suspect I may be absorbing but burning it up quickly. Why else would I jitter on the Estrogel if I'm not absorbing it at all? Who knows! Sigh.....I wish this was EASIER for all of us! xxxxx

Warwick!!!! I'm so very glad to hear from you! Oh my goodness, thank God you didn't come off completely and follow my lead - it's turned into a bit of a disaster to put it mildly! I'm so frustrated that the Tibolone couldn't work for us - gutted, even! I thought it might have been 'the one' but my mood took a very serious nosedive on it. Dammit!!!

Those adrenalin surges!!!!! My God, I've never experienced anything like it this time! I think we're 'lifers' for HRT, don't you? If only we can find the right one! I'm so hoping the Angelique works out for you this time - it was the prog. that got you, wasn't it?  If I get anxiety this time around on estrogen only then I'm going to utilise the contact I still have with the Psychiatrist and get something to take the edge off even though I now know it's definitely hormonal - anxiety was ok off HRT. I'll do whatever it takes, I think......

Sending you hugs and wishing you the very, very best of luck. You deserve it and I'm so sorry your holiday was hampered by that awful dizziness (it was horrendous, wasn't it)? xxxxx

[dangermouse]

Hi Tempest,

Do you think you could be having severe hormonal migraines from the fluctuations (post op and the HRT reactions you've had and now your own imbalanced hormones coming back)?

Symptoms can be nausea, dizziness, pressure feeling in head (I get right side of head tenderness too as if I've bruised it), floaters, ice cold feet, tachycardia, palps, intense physical anxiety, twitches in face, eyes, legs.

[Tempest]

Goodness me, dangermouse! I never gave it any thought actually but when I get the nausea, my head feels like its going to explode too! Lasts one to 2 hours, which I assumed were adrenal surges but I thought myself that these were particularly long in duration if that was the case.

You've certainly given me something to think about there - thank you! I'm so very sorry that you're suffering this way!
Hugs. xxxxx

[Otes73]

I got a rash from oestrogel too but carried on with it and it just went?!?!

Hope it goes ok with the 1 pump, start that gel with a positive mindset that it's working its magic for you not against you!

Good luck lovely x

[MIS71MUM]

Hi Tempest
I tried to analyse your Oestrogen taking logically. I think both you and I need to what's happening to us and why, whether it be jitters, surges, otherwise we end up going down the route of overthinking which in turn lowers our mood.
Hope I've given you some ideas for Prof Lumsden and best of luck.
Also I know exactly what you mean about feeling "me" off HRT. I can really identity with that as I feel like that as my patch wears off.
Still flushing for now anyway!
Take care x

[CLKD]

Some of those symptoms can be caused by dehydration too.  It's a real Trial and Error ain't it when all you want is to feel well, or at least have a reason why the various HRT's don't suit or ease symptoms!

Jitters can be due to the body being hungry.  I remember being intensely hungry at certain times of the month as well as severely thirsty 24 hours B4 a bleed began ........

[dangermouse]

Well I too had never thought of migraine as I don't get headaches. My endo said they are very hard to diagnose but now I remember back, even in my 20s coming off the pill for a while (it always made me feel better in myself) and feeling sick which I'd put down to having a weak stomach. I had an endoscopy a couple of times over the years and my stomach was always normal.

My sister and I always used to get terrible motion sickness in cars and trains and boats have always been a no no! When my symptoms became very bad (18 months ago when 46) I did get the twitching, cold feet (as in nothing will warm them up!), odd dissociative feeling etc. and then the nausea was more intense than I'd ever had. I kept telling my GPs that I could feel pressure in my head as if it would explode (but without throbbing pain) and they said it was just anxiety?!!

I've had a rough couple of days (as it's Day 14 now and I'd doubled my progesterone cream dose which stimulates more oestrogen when you up
it) and the floaters were so bad it was like ants swimming around in front of my eyes and once this starts it is one long migraine for a few days until ovulation passes with respite from late night to early morning only, when our natural adrenaline comes down.

Anyway, there are definitely links with adrenals, I think I also read that my natural progesterone successfully opposes my ovarian oestrogen but it stimulates the adrenal oestrogen (as they are different types - estrone I think). So the moral being that hormones are very complex!

If yours are migraines I have read that HRT is hard to treat them (although I'm doing very well in general) but that post menopause they tend to go away completely. I know you've had a surgical meno but the adrenal hormones will also calm down once your brain has registered the new hormone status (as I think happens to a lot of women post natural menopause where it just takes a while to register before symptoms calm down).

My endo said a lot of problems women have in peri and post are the brain catching up with what is going on. As in it can over-react and cause volatile responses trying to get back to homeostasis. HRT can also throw it into a panic so that's why time can really settle things either on or off HRT.

[Wrensong]

Dangermouse - your mention of floaters is very interesting to me, as I have had floaters throughout post-meno & have been a migraineur since age 18.  It's like looking at the world through a cloud of bonfire smuts!  Although the dreadful migraine headaches seem to have stopped, I still feel "migrainous" for want of a better word a lot of the time (slight nausea, hyperacusis, awareness of being somehow in an altered state) & had long come to associate this with the hormone chaos of menopause.  During periods of unexplained tension (feels like inappropriate fight or flight response - when there is no threat but my body is convinced there is), my feet are ice cold, & hands clammy as you also mention - this was especially noticeable during peri at times I came to associate with build-up of unopposed oestrogen.   I also have daily fasciculations throughout the body & on face (tiny muscle twitches that look like popcorn under the skin).  My floaters began suddenly in early post-meno and because they got rapidly worse, had to be investigated.  I was told they are harmless & to my surprise are indeed associated with migraine, but to be aware of worsening symptoms that could indicate retinal detachment.  My floaters are tiny & nothing like the far more vision-impairing changes I get with aura, during which a large part of the visual field appears to be blocked out for 15-20 minutes.  Sorry Tempest - this is nothing to do with your OP!

[Tempest]

Thank you Otes! Interesting about the rash going away too. That's hopeful!

Great information, dangermouse. Thank you! I have to say that I think Endo's are the business when it comes to all things hormones. They really 'get it' and I had similar input from mine about the body and brain trying to find homeostasis.This backs up why the first 3 - 6 months settling into HRT can be so rough (Professor Lumsden also confirmed this in a letter she wrote to me last year).  I guess everything needs a good dose of tincture of time.......xxxxx

[Wrensong]

Tempest, this may be completely barking & I'm reluctant to mention anything that might be potentially damaging for a very hormone-sensitive lady, but have any of your medics ever suggested trying a combi conti HRT?  Unless of course, you did badly on progestogens in either Mirena or contraceptive pill in fertile years.  I know progesterone is generally thought to be unnecessary after hysterectomy, and that many ladies are made unwell by it at 20 paces, but from what I've read there are also some who feel better on both hormones & recent experience is making me wonder whether I'm one of them! 

I wonder whether some women just need the balance of a little progesterone to enable them to benefit from the oestrogen that seems so vital to wellbeing, much in the way it's gradually being recognised some of us also need T.  The sedative properties of Utrogestan were initially very helpful for me and I suspect I do need this progestogenic effect as I sleep so poorly, but that said, I had to abandon the trial after 5 weeks as it all went wrong!  I am lucky to tolerate the progestogen in Evorel but don't get as much symptom relief as I need, but I wondered whether a small dose of this combined preparation (say 1/4 patch to start with), might just possibly be suitable for you.  Not sure whether any medic (Gynae or Endo) would think it at all helpful given your hysterectomy & I am not experienced enough to back up this suspicion about balance with anything concrete.  Anyway was just thinking about your situation earlier today & couldn't remember whether this had already been discussed, so apologies if you've already got that particular T shirt!

Wrensong x

[Tempest]

You're  reading my mind, Wrensong! Thank you! I know Annie who has also had a hysterectomy trialled Utrogestan at one point and found it helped her.  So I've been mulling it over given my 'track record' and I'm adding it to my list of things to discuss with Professor Lumsden (I'm not hopeful though as like you say, it's not the 'norm' for ladies after hysterectomy unless they are needing it to prevent the recurrence of endometriosis).

Thank you so very much for thinking of me and coming up with this suggestion - it's so very kind of you! xxxxx

 

[Annie0710]

You know my thoughts on progesterone after hysterectomy and I get mad when it's thrown back "you don't need it, you don't have a uterus", I used it orally for about 3 months and was good on it but it's costly when you're not getting it the NHS

Bear in mind it can oppose your oestrogen (not sure by how much) but it really helped me with sleep and bowels

That's why I was keen on Tibolone, which really does support my case that post hyster ladies should be allowed to at least try progesterone

Typical though that the poor ladies who need utrogestan don't always tolerate it well and there's me who "doesn't need it" felt benefits from it xxx

[edelweiss]

Hi Tempest, have a read of this lady's story. It surprised me, but you never know http://menopausesupport.co.uk/?page_id=2

[dangermouse]

Susanne Somers writes in her books about the therapeutic effect of progesterone after a hysterectomy. She was also angry that doctors said it wasn't needed, this is true in not needing the protection for the womb but not in that it protects bones and has an anti-stimulatory effect which many women need, amongst many other things.

I do wonder if all women would do better with a continuous low dose progesterone combined with estradiol to avoid the stopping and starting of prog, which can, particularly at the high dose of Utrogestan, cause withdrawal problems. Even if it stops periods (which high levels of prog can do), unless you are trying to get pregnant, shouldn't be an issue.

Presumably you can only get it now combined with synthetic progesterone but you can switch to compounded (can be pricey though) to then have both estradiol and natural progesterone in one cream or lozenge. Also, for those still with a womb, the estrogen would be a low enough dose to be safe.

[Tempest]

Edelweiss!!! WOW. That is HUGE!!! Thank you so much!!!! That is EXACTLY how things go for me when I've been on estrogen only a while and as this lady is a member of the British Menopause Society, I feel confident that I can take her story to Professor Lumsden to illustrate my case. Thank you, thank you!!!! I really thought it was just me, but it isn't. This validates my experience from a source that's credible, and who has been advised by our own Dr. Currie. You're a true treasure!!!!! xxxxxx

Annie - you need to read Edelweiss's link too! xxxxx