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[edelweiss]

Thanks Tempest - yes EXACTLY!! But you know the weird thing? I have seen that some MM ladies chopping and changing HRT... they are patients of this very well-known and respected consultant. If taking a break is the answer then surely he'd recommend this to all patients who are experiencing loss of effect. Hmmmmm... seems very strange.

Tempest and others - if you remember at the start of this thread, I quoted the Italian Prof who said estrogen stops working because of a 'resistance' to it - analogous to insulin resistance.

Seems scientists have worked out why insulin resistance develops https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160307113548.htm

The article says, "For people with type 2 diabetes, the problem of insulin resistance means there is plenty of insulin but the body does not respond to it effectively." In this case they think it's caused by certain amino acids.

It's like HRT oestrogen tachyphylaxis/resistance: we may have plenty/high levels in our blood, but the body doesn't respond to it effectively.

I feel the Meno Society should agree a position on this and publish a consensus statement. Otherwise it's just too confusing and stressful for patients.

Then we need to someone to find out why it happens and how to fix it!! Trouble is, there's not enough of us affected, so there's no money in it for doctors or drug companies xxx

[dazned]

No auto immune problems either ,well none that I'm aware of !

[babyjane]

with my Hashimoto's I don't 'convert' T4 to T3.  I had high levels of thyroxine from my meds, I think the level was something like 26 but my body wasn't using it so I am treated with T4/T3 combination.  this sounds similar to what you are describing with the oestrogen eidelweiss.

[edelweiss]

BabyJane, do you feel better with T3 supplementation as well as T4? xxx

[babyjane]

Goodness me yes as my body was still hypothyroid without it.  My endo has put it on my medical records that I need this supplementation because there is talk of the NHS withdrawing it due to cost.  As it is the lab did not do my T3 blood test before my appointment last time and my endo was not at all pleased as he didn't have a true picture of my results.  The T3 question is a minefield in the NHS.  It costs something like £700 for 100 tablets whereas in the EU countries it is more like £20-£30 for 100.  the pharmaceutical company that makes it is holding the NHS to ransom so there are rumblings that it could be stopped leaving a whole subgroup of patients, of which I am one, worried and up creek without paddle 

[Tempest]

I saw an article on the news about this, Babyjane! Frankly i was disgusted......

One lady was buying in from Greece for a fraction of the price but stated that she was nervous of what she was actually getting. xxxxx

[babyjane]

Yes because it could contain anything as it is not regulated.  They re playing with people's lives and health for profit 

sorry eidelweiss I have hijacked your thread 

[edelweiss]

Ah that's good BabyJane, glad it helps you. Though not at all good to learn that the pharma company is holding NHS to ransom - appalling! xxx

[edelweiss]

Tempest hi there good morning. How are you feeling today? xxx

[Tempest]

I've made it to nearly 2pm and apart from morning anxiety on waking (the usual this past week) not too bad. If I can just get through the whole day.....

Did you manage any sleep at all Edelweiss? I was thinking of you as I went to bed last night. xxxxx

[edelweiss]

Hi Tempest that sounds promising good for you--- and it gives me some hope too. I'm feeling particularly bad today. I did get sleep but only on prescription pills - it's more like being knocked out than real sleep. But it's something at least. How kind and sweet of you to think of me as you were going to sleep THANK YOU xxx

[Hurdity]

Where is DG   

She had problems with accessing the site from her computer when it was upgraded and the server changed or whatever was done to it - she posted in the forum guide section. She still does post from time to time but on her phone so it takes ages.

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Some interesting ideas on this thread - have been away so need to catch up and will read the links!

Especially interesting what you said about tachyphylaxis edelweiss because that's what I was thinking as I started reading through. However Prof Studd on his website specifically refers to supraphysiological levels being the trigger for this phenomenon (as I recall!) so if it's him now saying otherwise I am also confused and this sheds a whole new light on all our treatments!! It's also bizarre in that during our menstrual cycle our levels increase dramatically and quickly so if this effect does occur, it must be something to do with estradiol being introduced exogenously rather than from our ovaries?

I've just realised I asked about your menopause etc on another thread before seeing this one. My memory has gone fuzzy since going away for a few days!

Hurdity x

[edelweiss]

Hi Hurdity, yes it's very interesting/perplexing I agree.

I'm not sure whether I can or should name names of doctors, but someone who has previously written extensively about tachyphylaxis told me 'it doesn't exist', then put the phone down.

And someone else closely linked to him said of my problem 'it's tachyphylaxis'. (And it didn't need to be supraphysiological levels').

It doesn't really matter what it's called, what I am experiencing is a lack of response after repeated administration. And I believe it's more common than consultants might admit.

Yes to your point about exogenous estrogen vs our own estrogen, that is indeed puzzling. Maybe bioidenticals aren't as identical as everyone thinks? Or there's some other reason - too much constant repeated stimulation for too long? Perhaps the body prefers cyclical variation. Don't know, obviously these are all guesses.

I know you've used estrodot for years without problems, so I bet it's hard to imagine it not working. I would have found it really, REALLY hard to believe before, but there's no doubt in my mind that it happens - now it's happened to me. It's not just psychological changes, I have very obvious physical meno changes while on HRT and at high plasma levels. x

[Pinkfizz]

Oh dear!

I've come onto the site to ask, if I should ask for a higher dose of HRT...as suddenly my hot flushes and my insomnia have come back! Not to the degree that I was experiencing prior to HRT,  but it's definitely creeping back in at a pace. I should mention at this stage I have thyroid disease!!

 I am slightly odd in that department, as I am underactive with all the signs. But I am very sensitive to thyroxine and I can bounce to overactive on the test results (but I don't tend to have any overactive symptoms). I have always thought the problem lies with my putridity gland rather than the thyroid. However since I've been on HRT, my thyroid related problems have nearly all disappeared. I've even lost 2 stone and found my sense of humour!

So in short…are you telling me that I am going to hit that brick wall shortly. Is it worth going on a higher dose.

HRT completed changed my life…well the bloody menopause changed my damn life, HRT saved me from serial killing…always a good result.

Cheers ladies xx