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[donnacrichton]

We have been on a very similar roller coaster in peri. I have read far too much thought I had lots of knowledge until 2 weeks ago. I have been telling my consultant my estrogen has been way too high & still getting fluctuations even with system suppressed. He took blood and I had less than 20 estradoil which is why I have felt down right awful. Less than a man lol. My only advice is don't over analyse your symptoms as I have done for a long time get another appointment and discuss other options. Hope you get relief soon as I know only too well how life destroying it can be xxx

[dangermouse]

I suspect the weaker Oestrodose temporarily knocked down your blood levels and the FSH stimulation is allowing your own oestrogen to surge - it can go really high and it does feel exactly as you describe. I remember having the head/body about to explode feeling in December which can be migraine from the high oestrogen. It can depend on where you are in your cycle when the blip occurred in terms of how long it takes to get back to where you were, as in it would have been less of a problem if you'd taken the Oestrodose during days 1-5.

Please try not to jump to worst case scenarios and see it as an iffy month like your December was as things will calm down again. As this regime seems to be the best you've had (as I remember you tried BCPs, patches etc.) then probably best to stick with it for now but good to have the other options of Qlaira and Livial if things don't settle.

Some things you could try to help ride through (apart from the great suggestions you've already had for the mind stuff) is trying paracetamol to calm the blood flow to the brain, a beta blocker (Propanalol 10mg) to take at one off times, which reduces the adrenaline but won't interfere with your AD and you may find moving about better than resting when you have surges.

The charting seems a great idea too so you feel more in control.

[MIS71MUM]

Hi GRL
How are you feeling today?
X

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hello All 

I am feeling better, THANK YOU GOD. Yesterday afternoon, I felt so dreadful I nearly walked out of work and just drove to A&E. Then suddenly mid afternoon, I felt a wave of calmness just sweep over me. Felt immediately better, and like me, though felt very drained and fragile and had a nagging headache all evening. Slept much better, and didn't have any anxiety when I woke this morning, just felt nicely sleepy and blessedly normal. Still feeling much better.

Even typing this, I know how extreme and bizarre it must sound, and unless I had experienced it myself I'm not sure I would believe 'me'. But, honestly this is how suddenly it affects me.

I can't thank you all enough for your lovely, kind and supportive posts. This place is such a haven when you feel desperate.

Hurdity - thank you for your post, you always put things into perspective for me. I think you're absolutely right in that it's almost impossible to know what is causing what, when I'm on HRT + still having (possibly) my own cycle kick in/out every month. What really puzzles me is that any bleed I have, whether withdrawl or /natural/ is so very light these days, and mainly just brown spotting. Though someone did mention that if my cycle is being supressed by 4 pumps, that could be why my endometrium doesn't build up much?

So, in light of just 'not knowing' (which is what sends me into a tail spin) I have decided that the next time I experience one of these awful dips I am going to have a private oestrodial blood test done. It's only £29, and you get the result within 24 hours, and as these blips always last several days it should tell me whether my oestrogen is high or low at this time- which should explain why I feel so wretched.

I know that even on 4 pumps, last Summer my oestrogen level was only 605 p/mol, which Prof Studd didn't think was high at all. And I'm sure I have read somewhere that he likes his patients to be on at least 800 p/mol in order to cure the hormonal anxiety/depression.

donnacrichton - I think we could be peri twins, couldn't we? Yesterday, I literally wanted to be checked into a psych ward. It's very interesting that what you 'thought' was too high oestrogen causing the misery, was actually too low? God, no wonder you felt so terrible. No one else can understand, unless they have been through it. It is mental torture, isn't it? So, does this mean that you haven't been absorbing hardly any oestrogen at all (I think you use a patch?). What has your consultant suggested? I am going to have a few private blood tests, to see if they will show whether it's too high/too low oestrogen that causes these regular dips.

dangermouse - you talk a lot of sense as ever. Like I have said above, I really need to KNOW what is causing these awful surges + anxiety + diarrhoea + nausea + insomnia etc, etc. So, hopefully a few blood tests should really isolate what my oestrogen is actually bloody DOING. You're right, in that unfortunately I took the Oestrodose during the 2nd part of my cycle, with devastating results. I do think that whatever has happened these last 10 days is exactly what happened in December, and is exactly what happened March 2016, when I ended up signed off work and thought I was having a breakdown (I was only on a 50mg patch back then, and don't think it was nearly enough).

Liz - we are SO SIMILAR. Everytime I have this blip, every bloody time, I convince myself that actually it's bi-polar, or a BPD, or I'm just plain losing my marbles. And it terrifies me. But I do KNOW it is hormones, when I'm being rational, because all this only started when I noticed my cycle had become several days shorter, and my periods much lighter. Plus I had suffered with PND in the past, which is a classic marker for suffering with anxiety/depression in peri. Could it be something as simple as the progesterone part of your HRT caused the misery?

Marchone - thank you for asking. I am much, much better compared to yesterday 

[MIS71MUM]

Hi GRL
Glad you are feeling better.
I totally understand everything you post about the extremes - if you don't mind, I can be the 3rd twin, ie triplets!

Also just googled those tests you mention, very handy when you need some reassurance.

Take care x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Yes, we can be the Peri Triplets - the more the merrier, well not merrier but you know what I mean.

The moods are so extreme, and sudden, it's no wonder that lots of poor women are misdiagnosed as being Bi Polar 

I know on Prof Studd's website he talks about women who have been treated for Bi Polar, and various psychoses for 20 years or more, with little relief from their symptoms, only to finally end up in his clinic and be 'cured' within 3 months. It's heartbreaking. My poor Great Auntie had a nervous breakdown when she was in her 40s, and exhibited some very extreme behaviours. But looking back I honestly think it was most probably hormonal fluctuations. She slowly recovered as she went into her 50s, and presumably was post menopause?

I will be very interested to see what the blood tests show next time this happens? My gut instinct is that it will show my oestrogen  dips too low (well, too low for me). I believe I have always produced lots of my own oestrogen, and need far more of it than 'average' to feel normal.

[donnacrichton]

I was waring a 50mcg patch at the time. It's now increased to 75mg then to up it in a few weeks. As we both know my system doesn't handle change well. My consultant has taken blood twice. Once it was 77 then under 20 so I had convinced myself I was high so a blood test might help lots of luck x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Well, thank goodness you had those blood tests done. How long had you been feeling bad for? Can I ask, had you been feeling really anxious/feelings of dread etc, because that's how I'd been feeling, and wondering if my oestrogen had dipped too low, too.

[Elizabethrose]

Hi GypsyRoseLee,

I'm so pleased you're feeling so much better, it was a joy to read! Pesky hormones!!

May I ask your age GypsyRoseLee and where you think you are in peri now? Just pondering here. xx

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you Elizabeth, I'm really grateful for your lovely posts, too.

I'm 46, and all this peri Hell started 3.5 years ago. I don't really know where I am in peri now? Early menopause seems to run very strongly in the women in my family. My Aunty was only 38. Her daughter was only 28, and her other daughter only 44. Not sure when my Mum would have been menopausal as she had a hysterectomy at 42, but just like me, she suddenly started terribly 'with her nerves' as she turned 40 (so actually younger than me). Her 'nerves' disappeared after the hysterectomy.

It is about 3-4 years ago that I noticed my cycle seemed to be getting shorter, and my bleeds much lighter, but my PMS was getting worse and lasting longer every month. Some months I only got about 10 good days. I didn't have the awful anxiety back then, just this dull, flat, grumpy feeling for over half the month. Since starting Studd's regime last summer I have continued to have my own (very light) period regularly each month, followed by a withdrawl bleed when using Utrogestan.

I would very much love to think that my own cycle will stop very soon, but I have no idea xxx

[Elizabethrose]

I had a coffee with an old work colleague this morning whose struggle in early peri was very much like yours and others on here. She juggled HRT and ADs changing meds many times, hoping to find the magic formulae. She is post meno now and found that she 'truly got her life back' once the hormones plateaued a year or so after her last menstrual bleed and she stopped the HRT. She carried on taking ADs for a year or so after and then stopped those too.

I know it's impossible to say when you'll be post meno but I just wanted to give you some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Her big problem was the progesterone, her own and the Crinone and Utrogestan she'd used. The hormonal rises and falls wrecked havoc causing extreme anxiety and depression. She suffered terribly with PND too. Like me she suffered with pure menstrual migraine so ovary removal was ruled out.

Seeing her today she is a new woman, flushing occasionally but as she said, after what she'd gone through her flushes were bearable!

It's probably little comfort to you now but when we struggle it's good to have something to cling onto. It's kept me sane for many years allowing me to ride the oh too frequent storms!

I think the bloods would be an excellent idea if you hit another sticky patch but do think about charting too as it's just another tool with which to analyse and beat back this nightmare.

I really wish you well x

[GypsyRoseLee]

That is a really encouraging thing to read Elizabeth, thank you 

Suffering with nasty PND seems a classic indicator of you going on to suffer the same again during the peri menopause. When I'm having a dip I become barely rational, panicky, confused, agitated and that's exactly how I felt when I had PND. The only thing is, how will I know I am finally menopausal while taking HRT? How did your friend know? I agree with her, in that I would happily have 10 hot flushes a day, rather than the awful anxiety.

I do intend to start charting, as I think that's an excellent idea.

[Elizabethrose]

She stopped having her usual break through bleeds with her own cycle and after a while, given she continued to react badly to the Utrogestan, she was advised by her consultant to take a break from the HRT to see what was happening. She didn't have another bleed and despite having some meno symptoms she decided not to restart the HRT and to be done with it.

[Hurdity]

Hi GypsyRoseLee

Just to add that I am sure you know that if you have a blood tests and apply gel to your arms - not to have your blood taken from that arm or one that you use regularly, if possible, as this could give you a false high reading.

Yes puzzling about the very light bleeds (suggesting a suppression of your cycle)  but the relatively high level of estradiol ( I know not high by the treatment for depressions), and yet still suffering from the extreme hormonally induced mood dips. It will be interesting to see what your blood results show.

Hope you are still feeling better today

Hurdity x

[GypsyRoseLee]

That's really interesting ElizabethRose. So, did your friend have her own, natural period + a withdrawl bleed from Utro each month? This is what I have been having for the last few months - but at Xmas, I went 45 days between 'natural' periods and really suffered. Then this month, it has been 35 days now since my last natural period.

I wonder if I will go the same way as your friend, and my own periods just peter out, with the gaps between them getting longer and longer? Common sense tells me this is the most likely scenario. But, when I'm in the middle of a 'dip' I become barely rational, I'm afraid.

But, it really does give me hope that your friend was like me, but then came out the other side. Thank you x