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Author Topic: Menopausal migraines  (Read 9086 times)

maryware

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Menopausal migraines
« on: February 08, 2017, 09:05:42 PM »

Hello. I am 52 and perimenopausal. For the last couple of years, along with hot flushes etc I have been getting vicious headaches along with my period. Gradually they ate increasing in length and intensity and can now last up to 12 days, beginning just before as period and continuing until ovulation. I tried hrt patches (evoral sequi) for 6 months but they made v little difference. I've had various and conflicting advice from GPs: 1 thought it was progesterone deficiency, a gynae consultant thought hrt might make it worse, and at the moment I am off all HRT and trying various migraine medications. Nothing really works. The doctor only wants to change 1 thing at a time, which makes sense. I now wonder whether to try another form of hrt and maybe ask for a more flexible type, separate hormones so that we can tweak  progestogen element. Or to try yet mother migraine drug. Years ago I used cyclogest pessaries  are natural rone to help PMS and they gave me terrible headaches so I am nervous of making things worse. Any advice ladies? I am so frustrated at feeling  this for almost half the month! Thanks, mary.
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dangermouse

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 09:31:24 PM »

Hi Maryware,

Do you find the migraines get worse as you near ovulation or do they ease? That will give a good clue as to which hormone is lacking, as if it's low progesterone it will get worse as oestrogen builds up towards ovulation but if it gradually calms as you get close then it's likely to be low oestrogen.
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Elizabethrose

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2017, 11:46:04 AM »

Hello maryware    :welcomemm:
 
I'm really sorry you're struggling with pure menstrual migraine and very sad you've been unable to find support from the docs seen. They are the most difficult type of migraine to treat especially as they rebound frequently, as you've discovered. GPs very often do not have a specialist training to be able to recognise and treat these migraines.

My early experience sounds just like yours and after years of inadequate treatment I was forced to see specialists. What have you been prescribed to treat them, what has been done for you?

I have been forced to try many many things over the years and have seen specialists from different fields; some pushed for medical or surgical  oophorectomy, some HRT. All attempts to manage/treat the migraine failed and I have ended up following the advice from Anne MacGregor and Peter Goadsby who have a deep understanding of migraine and hormone interaction. Both believe that oophorectomy should not be used to treat pure menstrual migraine and should only be considered to treat a gynaecological condition. It would seem that the best course of action is to experience a natural menopause and a gradual decline in hormone activity. I've had a very long peri but feel that I am almost there now: the migraine have definitely improved in frequency and intensity.

I've tried many many things, seen neurologists, endocrinologists, gynaecologists; had natural treatments, serious meds, prophylactic and acute treatments, HRT and all failed except one of the Triptans, Frovatriptan which is the best drug apparently for treating pure menstrual migraine as it has a long half life and helps manage the horrific rebounds. I take this in addition to Diclofenac suppositories which bypass the stomach which is in stasis. The bypassing of the stomach is really important because absorption is compromised by the stasis and any opiate med should also be avoided as they aggravate the nausea and vomiting.

I'm afraid to say that HRT was a disaster for me and caused serious problems, one being constant migraine, this continued for a very long time after HRT was stopped. It was managed by two very well considered specialists. Some hormonally sensitive women simply cannot take HRT, irrespective of what some people will have you believe, it really isn't the be-all and end-all for everyone.

I have been using Vagifem to treat VA for the past few months and even the minute doses are causing side effects, though nothing that is problematical.

I hope this has been of some use, it sometimes helps to just speak to another women who has a similar experience: migraine is very misunderstood and isolating. Please do ask if you want further detail.

I wish you well x


« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 11:48:43 AM by Elizabethrose »
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jasper

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 10:21:35 AM »

Hi Maryware - i'm afraid I don't know the answer but I just wanted to say i'm sorry to hear that you are suffering from this too :'(  I am 47, not yet in obvious perimenopause but been trying to deal with menstrual migraines for a few years now with the last 10 months trying evorel patch (without progesterone initially as I wanted to see how I reacted and then I found I was having regular bleeds anyway increasing dose to 75). The patches seemed to help massively each time I upped the dose but then the next month it stopped. I also tried Zoely for 2 months and this just gave me awful neck/head pain constantly. I've been off it 3 months and back on the patch but all I think it does is move the headache. I don't have any pmt (feel best then!), no migraine during period and then it starts just as period ending - a mammoth 5-6 day migraine that only tails off towards ovulation. This morning I've had to take Frovatriptan (did nothing this time) and Syndol just to get out of bed :-( So I know how you feel - I was also put on various preventatives that either didn't work or massive side effects.

I'm now trying to decide whether to spend another £200 to speak to the consultant (top headache hormone prof) or try to come off Evorel and see how I am (I am worried my fatigue and muscle pains caused by lyme will get worse as it has helped a little with this) and whether the odd post - period migraine is any better. I am also wondering why I feel better 2nd half of cycle when I suppose I have more progesterone relative to estrogen and whether this is indicating that I am just too estrogen dominant in my first half??? I am totally confused tbh and really don't know what to do. So I wish you luck and hope you find a solution to help with yours, it's soul destroying I know.
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maryware

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 08:40:06 PM »

A huge thankyou to those who have replied. It is a relief to hear of your experiences although I'm sorry to hear of the struggles. Looking up 'pure menstrual migraine' as I didn't know the term, I reckon mine are the menstrual related ones as they can happen outside days -2 to +3. But I don't get the vomiting or aura, just light and sound sensitivity and a queasy feeling. In fact I didn't call them migraines until a doctor said they were but I recognise what I' m reading here. It used to be just one day of killer heads he in about day 4 to 5. Then more days, and now can go from -2 to about 10 if I' m unlucky. This month it seems to be going now on day 7 of my cycle. I think they get milder as they tail off but it's hard to tell because my ability to cope gets less after a few days! It has been confusing to know if tablets have worked when the headache comes back. Is this what is !eant by rebound? I have been wary of over using the meds and actually causing headaches. In the past I have tried co-codamol which I have for back problems, and naproxen. Neither does much for this.

The 1st doctor  ovet a year ago thought I was lacking progesterone.At the time I was waiting for an oophorectomy as I had a dermoid cyst, so couldn't start hrt. She prescribed rizatriptan, which did very little to help. Then I started propanolol as a preventative measure. Not sure if it is doing anything but am taking it  2x per day for luck. While waiting for surgery I had some acupuncture and herbal remedies which helped slightly (but work out expensive if I have to keep going back). Once the ovary was removed last June, without any problems, I tried evoral sequi patches for 6 months with very little effect. The first GP had suggested they insert Mirena coil during surgery to provide steady progesterone, but consultant wasn't happy. As I fought him to keep other ovary I gave in on this! Later reviewed it and was sent first to FP nurse then to gynae at hospital, as I am not sexually active and haven't had children. She was lovely, and really wanted to help, but thought it might make things worse, and recommended coming off hrt and simply focussing on migraine meds.And in fact she couldn't insert the Mirena when she tried. Missed my chance under anaesthetic, oh well...
But from reading here and from my previous experience with cyclogest giving me headaches I think she was probably right. So am I lacking oestrogen ratherbtha progesterone? I'm confused on this. Can I ask for tests?

So now I am on sumatriptan 100mg which sometimes relieves it for a few hours then it returns. They have also upped the venlafaxine I take for other reasons, but I haven't noticed any effect. No hrt at the moment.
So when I go back in 10 days I will ask for frovatriptan. I would also like to try hrt again, maybe fem7 patches. I heard that patches have less chance of causing side effects. Or maybe I should ask for separate hormones and reduce the days on the progesogen as some of you have done.I still have periods about every 24 days so might get away with this?
The GP I see now is better and I ask her to book me a follow up each time. Otherwise it is a total lottery and I am really fed up with having to make all the suggestions. One young guy kept saying that he had no personal experience. Really???!! Duh...

I know the headaches aren't as bad as some, but the number of days is wearing and I struggle to do what I need to do on those days. If I could lie in a dark room all day!...

Anyway, this is my saga, and thanks for your suggestions. I have found the paper by Dr Anne MacGregor on frovatriptan and will go armed with that next time.
At least it's snowing and we can enjoy the COLD weather!!!

Best wishes
Mary
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Elizabethrose

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 12:01:29 PM »

Hi again Mary,

It's all so very confusing, as in peri everything is juggling around. Bloods to measure hormone levels will very often change from day to day, week to week, month to month! I had very frequent bloods done to attempt to identify and manage hormonal swings and triggers: they confirmed what my symptoms were telling me was happening but very few other patterns emerged.

My pure menstrual migraine started right at the beginning of peri. Initially I would develop a totally debilitating migraine that would last a day, sometimes the day of the period, sometimes the day before or after. This pattern morphed though. Soon it lasted two days then three, then three and it would rebound for another three. Gradually the migraines would extend outside of the -2 to +3 of classic pure menstrual migraine.

Pure menstrual migraines rebound that's what makes them difficult to treat. A rebound is when the migraine is diminished or completely helped by a med but then comes crashing back in. My migraines built to the point when they would last for anything up to 13 days around a period only to start again a week later as the next period was building.

All attempts at hormone manipulation failed, only aggravating my problems. I now only use acute meds and only ever take Frovatriptan and Diclofenac. Medication has to be very religiously monitored when treating migraine and headaches in general as it's very easy to slip into Medication Overuse Headache, which is a constant and would result in the total removal of any headache meds. I have to keep a daily record of drugs consumed and ration them out for each calendar month.  There've been many months over the years when I've been panicking at how many med days I could have till the calendar month ends, nightmare!

Do try the Frovatriptan: it doesn't always work, sometimes it reduces the migraine, sometimes it clears it, sometimes it doesn't help much at all. I think it sometimes depends on how the migraine manifests itself: some fly in like a bat out of hell and take your breath away whilst some are slow builders. Combining the Frovatriptan with the Diclofenac Suppositories seems to offer the best option to enable the mig to be aborted. Taking the Diclofenac anally is hugely beneficial if not always convenient!

I know when you're struggling it's not much consolation that all will calm when you are finally through meno and the couple of hormonal years following it BUT it is very widely believed that a natural menopause usually results in the end to pure menstrual migraine that start as a result of peri. Things are really beginning to calm for me now.

Hope I've answered your queries but do ask if I can help further.  I really wish you well.  x
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jasper

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 01:40:31 PM »

Hi Eliazabethrose,
Really interesting to read your account thank you. I have been seeing Anne Macgregor too, but as I mentioned further up nothing working - did you see immediate worsening on hrt or was it gradual? I saw a benefit for a bit but not wonder if it's what's making the migraines so protracted- currently in day 8 of post period migraine.
I have been on frova for about 3 yrs and agree it's the best of the triptans. Though as with you, sometimes it does nothing. I alternate when needed with imported syndol (old recipe)'bit I'm aware how careful you have to be rebound wise with codeine. Who suggested diclofenac suppositories?
Just wish I could get to the root of the cause😩
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Elizabethrose

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 02:45:55 PM »

Hi jasper, good to hear from you.

I'm sorry, I have to admit I've read some of your posts but sometimes I worry that repeating my long, horrible experience to someone at the beginning of her journey may be terribly discouraging. Please know that not everyone will react as I have.

Anne introduced me to Diclofenac suppositories and that's another of her hot tips that have keep me sane. She also prescribed Motillium suppositories which in addition to controlling the shocking nausea and vomiting, also knocked me out so I was able to sleep through the worst of some attacks. Unfortunately Motillium supps have been withdrawn here.

So many docs prescribe opiates for migraine, Di-hyrodcodiene and co-codymol and others but she insisted that they be avoided for migraine because of the stasis problem. My vomiting was so violent at times that I would vomit these meds out seconds after swallowing them. Anal preps bypass the stomach and work much more efficiently and quickly. The French prescribe a lot of meds in this form, it seems pretty standard there. Using these is however, inconvenient at times: I have been known to have had to use them in the most bizarre and extreme of places! Diclofenac does come in gastro friendly tablet form now but they don't work nearly as well for me and I will only use them if there isn't a lavatory to hand!

My reaction to hormone change is immediate, always has been, though in peri, particularly late stage peri, it's been instantaneous. One benefit has been that the specialists I've seen could recognise exactly what was happening too. There was not a time that I didn't react immediately and very negatively to hormone manipulation. HRT had to be stopped but not before trying a number of adjustments.

My migraine initially appeared when the oestrogen dropped around menstruation but after the HRT trials when it became a constant, any hormonal change up or down triggered the migs. It seems that little is truly known about pure menstrual migraine and few studies and little research has been done world wide. When Anne started out on her specialism her set task was to prove that there was not a link between menstruation and migraine, she proved resoundingly otherwise! I searched the web extensively and was lucky enough to have family and friends passing me studies/research not readily available. It proved to me that we need to take control as some neurologists out there will rush to encourage removal of the ovaries when this can be hugely detrimental for pure menstrual migraine sufferers who can be plunged into hormonal mayhem.

Your peri may be very short and if you feel able to go into a natural menopause, it seems sure that all will improve with the migraines. I really don't know anything about Lyme and how it is affecting you but I'm sorry you have something else thrown into the equation to have to deal with. Before the migraine, I was fit and healthy, hugely active and able to juggle a million balls: I've learnt that you can't fight migraine, you just have to accept it and close down.

I was actually told that nothing else could be done a number of years ago and in some ways it helped because the chasing of a solution causes so much heartache especially when your brain can't compute properly! Acceptance did help me.

You may react totally differently from me, I don't know what you've tried. There may be another HRT combination that better suits you. I can only advise that you resist permanent solutions i.e. bi-lateral oophorectomy and do your research before agreeing to anything. These surgeons don't have to live with the results if all goes t___s up!! I know Anne would not advocate this course of action.

I'm sure as you've seen Anne she will have advised you to keep very accurate migraine and cycle notes. I was advised by another specialist to also include other symptoms of hormonal activity too, i.e. swollen breasts, bloating, cerv mucous changes and at some stages temperature changes. All of this documentation allows for a greater picture to be formed and more accurate analysis which may assist them in your treatment with HRT.

I really wish you well and truly hope you'll find a solution soon. x
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jasper

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 05:54:44 PM »

Elizabethrose - thanks so much for explaining everything. I will look into a couple of things - I'm on the cusp of trying to drop the Evorel to see what happens but i'm worried it is going make me crash - fatigue from the lyme. Diclofenac tablets have never worked for but maybe it's worth trying the other route -:) Things are v complicated because it's so hard to know what symptoms are lyme and what are hormonal. I'm not really in obvious peri yet which is a real pain! Regular periods even on Evorel 75 without progesterone. I've avoided speaking to Anne recently as I don't really have the £200 for a phone call to discuss whether I should stop or not! I did make some progress initially with a ketogenic diet which I started 3 months ago with non menstrual migraines but its had no impact on the ones after my period.  What I have noticed with both estradiol and testosterone (which I was given by Nick panay 2 yrs ago without success) is that they make PMS better and then kick a migraine off days 3-5 onwards. I still don't fully understand why this is!

How many migraine days do you still have? Are you headache free inbetween (I never am - wake up with a dull headache at best)?

Maryware  - sorry to have hijacked your post. Hope it's still useful..

thanks
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Elizabethrose

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 11:12:14 PM »

jasper, my symptoms of high oestrogen are the same as PMS and in late peri the surges of oestrogen have been off the Richter scale. I last ovulated in October 2015 but have had anovulatory bleeds during this last 16 months following prolonged massive oestrogen highs. The migraines have improved dramatically over the past year. I haven't had an oestrogen surge since September, it's all flatlined and for the first few months migraines were troublesome but now really calmed. I've had 2 migraine days so far this month and 6 last month. That is miraculous for me. I was regularly doing 20-24 days in bed a month and at least 28-29 when on HRT. I feel like I'm on holiday!

I used to wake with a low level migraine most days, now I don't. I have made adaptations in my life, try to follow regular sleep patterns, try not to physically exert myself to an extreme, eat regularly, drink lots of water, don't drink alcohol. I find if I do push too hard it'll trigger a mig. I used to dance and exercise hard, can't do this now so I walk whenever I can. Migraineurs have to be creatures of habit!

Do give the Diclofenac suppositories a try and I'm sure you know to take the Frova as soon as the headache starts. The earlier you catch the pesky things the better the chance of aborting them!

I wish you well x
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jasper

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 12:36:03 PM »

Hi Elizabethrose - very glad to hear that things have improved so much for you.  I hope it will all end completely soon! I have a long way to go I fear (47 now). I will look into the diclofenac thank you. x
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cubagirl

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 01:49:45 PM »

Now don't laugh, but recently someone posted on my FB page about stuff to shower/bath in which helps migraine sufferers.  It's by big well known company. Soothing vapor bath. Pregnant women use for migraines with success. There are articles on it online.
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Elizabethrose

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 03:26:07 PM »

Thanks cubagirl, I don't think there's much I haven't tried. Is it the Johnson's one? If so it triggered a migraine, ironic really! Strong fragrances are a frequent trigger. Even Tigerbalm which is supposed to be miraculous for headaches, triggers a headache.

Jasper, don't give up hope that all will end soon: your peri could be very short and maybe these migraines are your primary peri symptom. My mother's periods just stopped at 45, no long peri with hellish symptoms, no menstrual changes. I have a great many friends who really didn't have the nightmare peri that so many MM members experience. Luck of the draw!! x
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jasper

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 04:00:40 PM »

Thanks Elizabethrose - I wish you were right but I was told when I had a scan (nick panay) that I had about 5yrs worth of eggs in there ::) I have so much else going on that it's hard to know whats what - today migraine not as bad but shoulders and neck in spasm and of course I hate taking meds unless its a migraine because of the rebound :-( Lyme messes with everything - immune system, hormones etc and so I think all predisposed issues just get magnified. Thanks for your kind words though.

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cubagirl

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Re: Menopausal migraines
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 06:15:04 PM »

Chanel No5 used to trigger mine, though took a while to realise.  ER, migraines are awful.  I don't get bad ones often, maybe because I manage to stop them in their tracks most of the time.  But when bad only a quiet darkened room helps.  As I get infrequently I manage with over the counter migraine treatments.

My brother would get horrendous headaches with Lymes. He's had antibiotic treatment & don't think they bother him so much.  He still suffers with extreme tiredness.
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