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[groundhog]

Hi ladies,
I know a few if us have elderly parents in homes and I'm after som advice please.
As you may know my mother had a brain  haemorhage in 2012 and in 2015 after my op went wrong,  she went into a residential home.  That in itself could be a new thread as she is a young 76 whose brain injury makes her think she is 46,  she has never really settled and when I go there she gets extremely aggressive as I won't take her home,  but the advice I need is this -

She has a house which now has to be factored in to lay the fees.  They have offered us a deferred payments scheme which means they take all her pension but any shortfall then is paid by th council and the debt will ultimately be paid after her day when the house is sold.
They have also said they can register a charge in the house to secure the debt

I'm not sure what the difference is and wondered if anyone had been through this. 

I could really llive without it but can't ignore it anymore,
Grateful for any advice lovely ladies xx

[CLKD]

Is the house empty?  If so it will deteriorate quite quickly therefore will be worth less as the weeks go by.  If it doesn't make up any short-fall, it may be that the Council will come after family for any gaps in fees that require paying.

Does your Mum need pocket money at all?  If so that's what her Pension is for. 

I think that you need legal advice.  Does your Mum have a Social Worker?  Or ask the Manager of the Care Home what is best for your Mum's situation? 

I believe that any 'nursing care' fees are nil for the client as NHS care is free at the point of delivery, i.e. if she was to receive care at A&E or on a Ward, it should be the same in the care home.  However, clients in a Nursing Home will pay more than those that don't require full nursing attention as they need qualified staff in attendance.

Care Home fees cover the whole administration, maintenance, salaries, up-keep etc. although people think that monies go for B&B.  It also covers laundry requirements, re-decorating between clients which may be a whole paint job as well as new carpets …… it pays for the various Insurance Policies required in order to run a home safely. 

You should be able to access the various care homes in your area by looking at their web-sites.  Perhaps send an e-mail asking the question to a few ?

[CLKD]

My Parents' house is large so I wouldn't want the hassle from a long distance of upkeep.  It will be sold, either to pay for fees if the savings aren't enough or as part of the Estate.

[Dancinggirl]

groudnhog - you ‘ve been given some good thoughts from Stellajane and CKLD.
My thoughts are - the house will need to be sold at some stage anyway, maintaining it will be a cost and a hassle so selling it now is possibly going to be the best option. There is a housing shortage, so there is also the moral element - should one leave a house empty?
I think the charity ‘Age Concern' are very good about offering advice so maybe give them a ring as well. DG x

[groundhog]

Hi all and thanks for your advice.
It's very complex CLKD - they take her pension and private pension and allow her £25 a week pocket money.  Any shortfall the council will pay initially until she is classed as permanent or has been there 52 weeks,  like my mother has.  In a perfect world my mother wouldn't be in this carehome - it's a residential home and she is probably on the cusp between nursing and residential.  All the nursing homes were full at the time and to be honest my mother isn't a normal case. This is where my ther gripe comes in,  she has a brain injury - she walks around the home thinking she works there,  she doesn't mix with the other residents at all.  The home accept this and as it's in the town where we live,  she used to socialise with some of the carers which reinforces her belief she works there. I could go on and on,  sorry.
We don't really want to sell the house yet because it's not impossible that she will improve and what then?  I am very mindful of the implications of an empty house but family does stay there a few weekends a month - we have considered a holiday let or getting a tenant in. 
I'm just nit sure what the difference is between putting a charge On the property or deferring payment - I will ring the council later.
It is very galling to have to consider selling my mothers house to pay for care that's very basic.   This isn't a lovely swish nursing home - because she is brain damaged the nicer home wouldn't take her.  The other residents in the home are being completely funded by the local authority as they dnot have property,  it's unfair in my opinion.  She worked until she was 70 then had massive brain haemorhage - she would be heartbroken if she realised what was happening,  it's only a little cottage and i was born there so i do have sentimental attachment.
She's had 3 social workers CLKD and they have all left,  I'm trying to escalate my concerns as we speak but honestly it's pretty dire here. 
Thanks anyway for your input, 

[Dancinggirl]

I would definitely get some advice from Age Concern - they can be brilliant and could possibly offer the unbiased advice you need.  DG x

[CLKD]

The residents are funded by the Council because they don't have savings.  Life has never been fair so try to accept that currently, it is what it is.  How we spend our money is up to the individual, thinking ahead to how much comfort one wants at end of Life stage isn't often on peoples' radar!  Those residents may regret not having savings or they may be satisfied. 

The Care home should be able to advice you on how Fees will be managed in the future.  You know in your heart that your Mum is unlikely to recover, she's had a head injury and you were unable to care for her in her bungalow.  Even with care coming in occasionally it is often impossible eventually …… if you go into the landlady situation you may well have to make alterations to the property in order to meet regulations and it is difficult to get Agencies to work well.  If you get tenants that trash the property you will have even more problems and there is a lot of up-keep required in-between each tenant.  (noted from my friend's house next door!).  If it is let furnished all has to have fire-labels on from when they were bought …… carpets have to be in good repair as do kitchen appliances etc. etc..

Maybe find out if the current place will keep your Mum there when she requires dedicated nursing care?

[Kathleen]

Hello groundhog.

As you may know my MIL recently went into a nursing home as she needs 24 hour care. She has some savings and owns a house. My husband and his brother and sister were thinking of selling the house but now they plan to rent it out instead and use the rental income to pay the fees. The property will be available from January and will be managed by a letting agency who take all the responsibility and charge a fee. I will update the forum when all this happens as our experiences may be of help to other ladies.

Wishing you well.

K.

[CLKD]

Good idea Kathleen - your own thread maybe? 

[Katejo]

The residents are funded by the Council because they don't have savings.  Life has never been fair so try to accept that currently, it is what it is.  How we spend our money is up to the individual, thinking ahead to how much comfort one wants at end of Life stage isn't often on peoples' radar!  Those residents may regret not having savings or they may be satisfied. 

The Care home should be able to advice you on how Fees will be managed in the future.  You know in your heart that your Mum is unlikely to recover, she's had a head injury and you were unable to care for her in her bungalow.  Even with care coming in occasionally it is often impossible eventually …… if you go into the landlady situation you may well have to make alterations to the property in order to meet regulations and it is difficult to get Agencies to work well.  If you get tenants that trash the property you will have even more problems and there is a lot of up-keep required in-between each tenant.  (noted from my friend's house next door!).  If it is let furnished all has to have fire-labels on from when they were bought …… carpets have to be in good repair as do kitchen appliances etc. etc..

Maybe find out if the current place will keep your Mum there when she requires dedicated nursing care?

  a few years ago I read an article which said that a self funding resident in the same care home as a council funded resident would be charged a far higher rate on the assumption  that they could afford it. That put a question in my mind. I imagined myself as a future resident alongside someone who had earned a similar salary to myself and who was a home owner. The difference was that the other person had not made an effort to pay off their mortgage (perhaps interest only) and had spent all their earnings on lavish holidays etc. I began to wonder whether it was worth me saving in the way I have done if I would be 'punished' for it at a later date.

[CLKD]

Don't see it as punishment but as a Life-style choice?  Those who are privalidged to have invested in property etc. can spend the proceeds as they wish.  I don't think anyone knows the various standards of 'care' across the UK! until push comes to shove.  Even in the various 'care' homes that Dad was in 15 years ago there was huge variations: some were obviously run on a business basis with little 'care' involved, another the Staff were lovely: caring, kind, always had time for clients and visitors, always offered a cuppa - this particular place was privately owned, quite run down, in comparison to the business-led establishment which was part of a huge 'chain'.

If a person is in NHS care following surgery etc., the Pension is taken for B&B, after all, they won't be spending it at home.  There are too many variations of care in the UK, I would like to see ALL properties/companies providing Full Nursing Care at all times.  People go into 'care' for various reasons and some are quite mobile at the time, deteriorating as they age.  At which time they may be moved from one place to another that provides nurses.  WRONG in my opinion, after all they are probably settled where they are.

It can also be that couples are separated as they have different care requirements 

It depends on whether a person wants to share a room with a walk to/from a shared bathroom or whether a person wants peace and quiet, their own things around them with an en-suite.  Think of the choice as a Hotel situation rather than a 'care' home, what would you prefer?  If the latter is preferred, then it has to be funded somehow and why not by someone who can afford it?  The way that situation can be avoided is for establishments to be Council funded separately with no clients paying their way.  Where Dad was, Council funded clients were down-stairs and those that were self funded upstairs which wasn't always appropriate - had a fire broken out ………. 

[CLKD]

I think that the LA pays a certain amount per client then those with more in the bank/savings as it were pay towards their care, i.e. en-suite, single room accommodation.  I would HATE to have to share  particularly a bathroom.

[babyjane]

That is quite correct

 

In fact with mum the ensuite room actually became a pain as the carers didn't have enough room to manoeuvre around her comfortably and it was often just too far away for her to reach at night in an emergency so she ended up having a commode placed at her bedside anyway. You can easily end up paying extra for something that isn't used.

My MIL started off with an en suite room but she was bedridden and didn't use it at all.  It ended up being a dumping ground to store all her personal and sanitary products that were used daily to keep her comfortable.   For this reason my FIL requested she be moved to a room without an en suite and the bill was cut by several hundreds of pounds a month for the same care.

[Pennyfarthing]

My mum is currently having a weeks respite in a residential home. I know I've got to start thinking about care home fees etc but just at the moment my brain won't take any more on board but I will come back to this as and when.   

[CLKD]